Transcript for
Body positive: Supporting girls to grow up confident and proud

Narrator (00:02): 

Welcome to the Emerging Minds Families podcast. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (00:05): 

Hi, I’m Nadia Rossi, and you’re listening to an Emerging Minds Families podcast. Before we start today’s episode, we would like to pay respect to the traditional custodians of the land on which this podcast is recorded, the Kaurna people of the Adelaide Plains. We also pay respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples, their ancestors, elders, past, present, and emerging from the different First Nations across Australia. As parents, we want our daughters to feel confident, strong, and proud of who they are. But we’re also aware of the messages they receive about their bodies, their beauty, and their worth from a very young age. In this episode, we explore how parents can support young girls to thrive by helping them develop a strong sense of self, body appreciation, and trust within themselves. I’m joined by Emma from Pippin Girl, whose work supports girls to know their value and stand strong in who they are. 

(00:59): 

Together, we’ll talk about the powerful role parents play, the everyday moments that matter, and how small shifts can help girls to grow up feeling worthy and confident in who they are just as they are. Welcome, Emma. It is great to speak with you today. Thanks for joining us. 

Emma (Guest) (01:13): 

Oh, thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here with you. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (01:16): 

Oh, that’s awesome. 

Emma (Guest) (01:17): 

Yeah, I’m here for it. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (01:18): 

I’m here for it too. I’ve been looking forward to this for a while ever since I heard about you. So thank you so much. Emma, at Emerging Minds, we acknowledge that families come in many forms, so we always ask our guests this question at the beginning of our podcast. I was wondering if you could tell us about who makes up your family. 

Emma (Guest) (01:35): 

Yeah, for sure. My family is my pride and joy, and I love them so much. I am married to my wonderful husband, Sam, and we have three beautiful children. I’ve got two daughters, nine and seven, and a son who is four. And last year we moved to about 20 acres just out of a small coastal town in Northern New South Wales. So our family now also consists of a lot of animals. We joke and say we didn’t actually buy a farm, we brought a zoo like the movie. We’ve got two dogs, like 13 cows, chickens. We’ve got all the stuff, a bunny. I don’t probably really count them as family to be honest, but my kids are like, no. When we draw a family photo, my kids are like, “No, all the animals are in the photos.” 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (02:14): 

Oh, how wonderful. Did you move from the city to farm-ish life? 

Emma (Guest) (02:18): 

We were living in a coastal town, so closer to the beach, just in the suburbs. So just moved out just ever so slightly and have been able to find our own little block of land. So yeah, we’re loving it. It’s been a really big lifestyle change, but we’re loving it. It’s been the best. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (02:31): 

Emma, I wanted to ask if you could tell us a bit about Pippin Girl and what inspired you to create it. And what you were noticing about how girls were learning about themselves and learning to see themselves. 

Emma (Guest) (02:43): 

Yeah, for sure. I’ll give you the long story short, but I’m a high school biology teacher trained. And so even when I was going through university, I just had on my heart that whatever school I ended up working in, I wanted to be really working alongside the girls in that school. And so my first school, I started running a breakfast program for girls where we would just meet and I’d just hold space and open up a room just for them to be able to chat about all these big things. We’d have a different topic every week. And I guess through teaching science and hosting program like that, and then moving into more of a wellbeing position in schools, I just really started to see, first of all, what a lack of understanding girls had about their bodies, about their basic anatomy, basic function of how remarkable their bodies are, how to take care of their bodies well, that basic understanding. 

(03:28): 

Even for girls, by the time they got to year 12, I was just like, “Wow, how do you not know about this?” But then of course, as social media started rolling out, I started seeing through my years working in schools, just the struggles girls were having with their own worth and understanding their own value. And again, body image and moving away from their value and worth being tied to their appearance, which I know we’re going to speak about today. And all of the issues that come with that and how that then interplays not only in their friendships, but in their romantic relationship and all of their life. So that’s what I really saw. And from there I was like, well, I just want to start filling a bit of a gap. So I started creating some books for tween and teen girls, which I then launched. 

(04:06): 

And I am now in the space where I’ve got an online store with resources, but I also speak in schools around Australia every week from students from year five to 12 about all the big stuff. Primarily, I’m speaking to audiences of girls, but sometimes it’s a range. Sometimes it’s co-ed, sometimes it’s just a group of young men. So every week looks really different, but I love the work that I get to do and I can see the growing. I wish that I didn’t have a job and I wish I didn’t have to talk about some of the things that I did. But unfortunately the need for this kind of work and to be holding space for these conversations with our girls is sadly only getting more and more important. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (04:41): 

Absolutely. And I wish that I had someone like you around when I was at school. I’m 42 and just still learning about my body. And there’s so much that I think we missed and now social media is around learning from that, but also what is the right information that is coming out as well. 

Emma (Guest) (04:59): 

Thank you. And I think in the work that I do, my teen years and my experiences as a woman play such a big part in that too because I’m the same. I think back to those years and I’m like, wow, there’s so many conversations that I wish someone had had with me. And I’d like to think rose-coloured glasses in hindsight that possibly had someone been having these conversations with me and I wasn’t even exposed to social media. So I can’t even imagine now what it’s like adding that layer on, that I might’ve been able to make some better and different choices around my body and relationships. So that really feeds my work as well is what do I wish that I had when I was young? 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (05:34): 

Yeah, 100%. I wanted to go back to language and what I mentioned earlier about the language that young girls are hearing. And there’s a term that I hear a lot about thriving, we need to help our girls thrive. And while it’s wonderful, what does that actually look like to you? What is thriving and what is a thriving young girl and how do we help them to thrive? 

Emma (Guest) (05:54): 

Yeah, I love this question so much. Instantly when you think of the word thrive, you think physically, mentally, emotionally, and socially. But I think even before we get into that, I think it’s important to paint a bit more of a realistic picture here. Our girls are in their tween and teen years. They are in years where their hormones are shifting and those hormones are affecting not only their body changes, but it’s affecting them emotionally, socially, mentally, everything, every aspect of their life. There’s not a moment, a surface of their life that is not being untouched by these big, huge developmental changes. And so it’s going to look messy. And so I think if we expect it that thriving looks neat and tidy, and we’re looking for perfection or a daughter who is always happy and always confident to define thriving, then we’re going to fall short because at any stage of life we can’t actually be that. 

(06:43): 

And so I think for me, thriving is simply growing. We want our girls to be growing in their ability to take up space and to be who they’re supposed to be in the world. And so for me, thriving means that our girls are learning to trust their bodies, that they are learning to find their voice and to know that their strength lies not only in themselves, but also in their ability to start connecting to others and their support network and community because our girls cannot thrive in isolation. And so to me, thriving is bigger than just her as an individual. We’ve got to talk village here. We want our girls thriving in community and in a village and surrounded by lighthouse figures that are still Maggie Dent’s in there and other women in their world who are helping them on this journey. And it’s going to look messy, but that’s okay. That’s the point. 

(07:29): 

For me, it looks like girls who have a spark. For me, that’s my one thing with my daughters. I’m like, I want my girls going through their twin and teen years still with a spark, pursuing the things that make them feel alive and bring them joy and finding purpose in something that’s bigger than themselves. And so for me, when I think of the word thriving, that’s what I’m looking for. That it’s not all smooth sailing, but they can navigate the ups and downs with kindness for themselves and a bit of an inner grit to be able to get through really hard things. That’s my definition for thriving. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (07:59): 

I love it. As a mom of two young girls, that is so reassuring to hear as well, the messiness and the spark because boy, my girls have spark. And sometimes you’re like, it’s too much, but it’s great. You’re like, this is excellent. 

Emma (Guest) (08:17): 

But you can’t teach that and it’s hard to get, you want that. That’s what we need to be harnessing in our girls. It serves them well. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (08:20): 

And I think it’s also managing those expectations and you are also fighting against that thing of the parenting of the perfect child, or that well-behaved daughter and that it’s okay to be messy. They’re figuring it out. They’re figuring themselves out. So I love the way that you described that. 

Emma (Guest) (08:34): 

Yeah. And I love even what you said before. I think being realistic about where our girls are at, because like you just said before, as moms we’re still learning about our bodies. We’re still unlearning things. We’re still learning how to do relationships and friendships. And so sometimes we have really unrealistic expectations of what thriving should look like in the tween and teen years. I think just really simply, are they moving forward? I don’t want my girls shrinking. I don’t want them becoming a shadow of who they’re supposed to be or staying in one place and not growing. I think as long as our girls are moving forward, then they’re thriving. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (09:04): 

That’s wonderful. I love that analogy of moving forward. I wanted to talk about messaging in media and how as they grow up, I think more so now as well, like we mentioned with social media, there’s the bombardment of what their body image should be or what they should look like or how they feel like they should look like. And so in your view, what messaging do girls need to hear more about and what is unhelpful messaging, and how can parents support that messaging? 

Emma (Guest) (09:29): 

Yeah. I think to answer that question, I’ll start with what’s happening and what are some of the harmful messages, what’s not helpful for our girls. And to be honest, these messages that our girls are receiving are not new. These are decades old. They’re the same ones that we are subject to, but the difference is that they are in their face 24/7. There’s no escape from it. And so we’re seeing this from younger and younger ages now because of social media and because of what they’re exposed to online. And so the messages are still the same. It’s still your body needs to be fixed, altered, and changed, and you couldn’t possibly be happy unless you do. The way you look is the most important thing about you and it better be cute, sexy, and attractive. And your value and worth as a girl or as a woman is found in how well you can fit these gender stereotype boxes. 

(10:11): 

You need to be polite, nice, submissive, agreeable, and look after other people’s feelings. And these are all the messages that I hear from girls as young as nine and 10 years old. So I work with girls as young as year five, and I’ve heard and spent time with girls in year five talking about the pressure that they feel to have a flat stomach. And I’ve spent half an hour of a session just talking through that with girls. I’ve talked to year six girls who identified without any prompting from me that they felt pressure to be looking after boys’ feelings from year six. So these are the kind of messages that our girls are receiving from a very, very young age. And the reason they’re still being absorbed by our girls is like you said before, because of social media and advertising and movies and television shows. 

(10:56): 

It’s things like the games on the Apple Store. You type girls’ games on the App Store and it’s all glow up. You’ve got to do someone’s nails, hair, makeup. There’s princess plastic surgery, you’ve got to give someone plastic surgery and the more plastic surgery you give them, the happier they get. These are the games our girls are playing. You type boys games into the app store, it’s fighting Clash Royale, building, creating, racing, sports. And so again, we’ve still got these really gendered stereotype boxes for our kids to be fitting into, and there’s consequences for our kids if they don’t fit these boxes. And that’s why these messages are still so prevalent in our young people is because for a young girl who doesn’t fit this box, she might be bullied, teased, isolated, name called. And this is the same for boys. We’ve got to understand we’re talking girls here today, but our boys are subject to this too. 

(11:43): 

And we know that there’s been big media around this that boys that don’t fit the man box are labelled as weak. They’re ridiculed. They’re not accepted. And so there’s big consequences. So these messages are very loud and this is where as parents we just need to be getting a little bit louder. Our kids are being influenced, but we have an opportunity as parents to be just as big, if not bigger of an influence in this space for our kids. So some of the messages that I think that our girls need to be getting are things like around their worth that they need to know. And again, this speaks to us as moms, I think, and as parents still too, that there is nothing you can do to change your worth and value. That is a message that I give to my own daughters over and over again. 

(12:23): 

I’m like, “No one else can touch your worth and value.” The minute that your daughter was conceived, her worth and value was set. And throughout her entire life, no one can take that away from her. No way that someone can treat her, no name, no bullying, nothing can touch her worth and value. A new Frank Green water bottle is not going to change her worth and value. Being in that group, having us, the slick back and all the hairstyle at the moment, those kinds of things, whether she has a Labubu or now she’s got a NeeDoh squishy, those kinds of things that actually don’t change her worth and value. But what’s happening in schools still is the same as when we, but again, these trends are coming so quickly now that our girls are feeling the pressure to be keeping up with all of them because they’ve attached their worth and value to them. 

(13:02): 

And so again, coming back to, “Hey, that’s not going to make you any more worthy and there’s nothing we can do to change that.” In our homes, we need to change what we’re celebrating. So what we celebrate in our homes, what our girls are celebrating in their friend groups is actually what gets elevated. So if we’re celebrating appearances, we’re celebrating these trends, we’re celebrating having the latest things, that is then what we’re elevating in culture and in society. And so again, it’s just coming down to our girls, what do we celebrate as a family? What are our family values? What do we lift up? What do we elevate? So that then that becomes the main thing that our girls are focused on. Things like character, effort, how you treat people. How our girls make other people feel is always going to be more important than how they look, always. 

(13:43): 

And so yeah, it’s just this messaging that the way that our girls look is the least important thing about them. And that’s a sentence I say to my daughters, and that’s the kind of messaging that our girls need to hear more of is that it is actually the least important and it’s the least interesting thing about you as well. It’s not about whether they’re pretty, it’s about, do you have a pretty heart? Forget about are you stunning? Are you living a stunning life? How do you leave people feeling? Because at the end of the day, that’s how our girls are going to be remembered. So yeah, I would say that’s the main messaging is just moving away from their value and worth being tied to what they have and what they look like and moving it more towards their inner person, who they are, how they make people feel, how they show up in the world. And that’s such an easy thing to start doing as parents. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (14:24): 

I love that reframing and there’s such great takeaways, changing what you celebrate in the home and how you elevate. And then modelling that to your children at home so then they can take that forward into their friendship groups, and can listen for that language that they know that if you are using, they can then take that with them and lift each other up in such a way. Do you think that messaging changes as a baby to a primary school age to high school? Is there stuff that we can be doing when they’re babies to start them off? 

Emma (Guest) (14:53): 

Yeah, definitely. They say, I can’t remember the exact statistics, but they say, for example, a young girl will receive a proportionately higher amounts of comments about her appearance and what a young boy will. So a young boy will be like, “You’re so strong. You’re so fast.” Girls will get, “You’re so pretty, you’re so cute, you’re so beautiful.” And so again, from a young age, really, really simple is just starting to celebrate character and effort and not overpraising appearance in young girls. So that would be probably one of the things we could start doing from a really early age and things like, “Your legs are so fast, they’re so strong, they help you run fast. I love how kind you were to your friend.” Rather than just this always, “You’re pretty, you’re beautiful.” And you know what? I’m not one of those people that’s like, “Don’t ever say that to a girl.” Of course, let’s be real. 

(15:38): 

I look at my daughters and I can’t help but say, “My gosh, you’re so beautiful. You take my breath away.” But at the same time, their beauty isn’t tied to how they look. I’ll say, you’re so beautiful when I’ve seen her be kind to a friend or show courage. And so it’s where is their beauty coming from? Where’s that tied to? I think by the time they get into primary school, this is where already, sadly, comparison and thing can start creeping in. And so we need to start building a bit more awareness and really gently challenging some of those outside messages as young as primary school, so five, six years old. So start naming where some of these messages come from. Is that from your friends? Is it from an ad? Is it from online? Is it from a TV show or movie? Where have you picked up this belief from? 

(16:16): 

Starting to introduce that idea that not every idea, not everything you hear, not everything everyone says is always true and is always helpful. And so that kind of thing from a really young age, someone makes a comment about your body. Well, is that true? Is it helpful? Does it matter? That kind of thing. Someone to make a comment about something to do with your body, well, actually the way your body looks is the least important thing about you, so that’s not necessarily important. And again, keep reinforcing. I just think that message that your worth is fixed, that you can’t earn that. Now, by the time they get to high school, this is where we really need to ramp these conversations up. I would say even before high school, like year four, five, six, we need to be building in our girls an ability to critically analyse media and the messages that are bombarding them. 

(16:58): 

So this is simple. Even as you’re walking through a shopping centre, these are the kind of conversations you can have. You’re looking at an advertisement, you’re like, “Wow, okay, what does that advertisement tell us about the value of women compared to the value of men? Or do you notice how all the girls are portrayed in that? What is that ad trying to tell you? What is it trying to sell you?” Watching some influencers with them online, watch them get ready with me videos and ask you questions like, “Okay, who benefits from this video? If you leave this video, does this make you feel like you’re not good enough? So who benefits from you feeling like you’re not good enough? What is this trying to sell me? What’s being maybe left out of this image and story as well? Like maybe what am I not seeing?” 

(17:34): 

And so again, just building these skills in our girls for them to be able to start to see things for how they are. Because if we’re going to start heading down the route of our girls hopping onto social media, again, we don’t just throw kids into a car and say, “Go for it.” There’s a learning phase. And so again, we need to be building these skills before we hand them a device, before they hop on social media. And so there’s so many things. Our girls need to go from being just passive consumers to being really thoughtful questioners. I’m passionate about raising curious girls who are not judgmental, but curious. Why? How did we get here? What’s happening here? What are the messages that we’re receiving? 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (18:10): 

I love those questions that you’ve put out there for parents to ask their children. It’s more like having a conversation with your daughter and asking these open-ended questions and getting her to be critical. And think more about why is this being shoved in my face and why am I being asked to consume this? And then what does that mean for me? I think that there’s so much unlearning that I’m even doing right now in real time of the messaging that I grew up with and the way even I had conversations with my parents. So to know that, yes, this is really important, and then it feeds into them questioning other things and being able to ask themselves even, am I comfortable in this situation or why is this happening? And to be strong in that. I wanted to talk about body appreciation as opposed to body perfection. 

Emma (Guest) (18:53): 

Yes, let’s do it. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (18:54): 

If you can explain the difference between that, because I love the term body appreciation. I think that is such a great way of framing it and learning to appreciate our bodies and what they do and what they provide for us. And so I wanted to ask how knowing the difference can help empower our young girls. 

Emma (Guest) (19:09): 

Yeah. And just to change the term slightly for you on the spot, rather than using the term body perfection, I’m going to use the term body positivity because that’s really been the movement that we’ve seen within the last decade is this move towards body positivity. But there’s still a big difference between body appreciation and body positivity. So when you put this question in, I was like, yes, let’s talk about this because some people think that we’ve come a really long way because of this body positivity movement. And look, to be honest, we have because what the body positivity has done is it has challenged the idea that there’s only one way to look beautiful or there’s only one type of body that is worthy, beautiful or acceptable. So the body positivity has broadened that. It’s widened it and it said, you know what? There’s many ways to be beautiful, to be worthy, to be acceptable, wonderful. 

(19:56): 

I think that’s awesome. The only prerequisites to having a good body is having a body. That’s it. You’ve got a body, you’ve got a good body. It’s great because it’s helped people feel less ashamed of their bodies and more represented in the media. And we see the results of that is we see girls of all shapes and sizes of all different body shapes feeling more confident in themselves, moving at the gym, going for walks at the beach. And I think that’s wonderful. Although even in saying this with the body positivity, I think it’s important to point out that what I’m hearing in schools is that there’s a real resurgence of this skinny talk. It’s called skinny talk because that’s the kind of media that’s coming up on TikTok at the moment is this pushback towards being this way thin. Our generation growing up, we had Kate Moss as our fashion icon and the body type was heroin chic. Supposed to be as skinny as if you looked like you were on heroin. 

(20:45): 

We’ve done a full pendulum swing. Thank you, Kardashians. Curves have been in, there’s all the hourglass. It’s been great. And so I think even though we’ve had this pendulum swing and this body positivity movement has been great, I think it still actually misses the point because the deeper issue is that both the beauty culture that we grew up with, so toxic, so harmful. But also some versions of body positivity, it still keeps girls asking the same question, how do I look? That’s still the question. Regardless of what’s happened over the last decade, girls are still asking the question, how do I look? Instead of them asking, again, these deeper questions like who am I becoming? What kind of person do I want to be? What can my body help me to do? 

(21:27): 

It’s still taking the focus away from our value and worth being attached to just all we’ve done is just broaden the what’s acceptable and beautiful. But we’ve still said the most important thing about you is still how you look within that. All it’s really done is repackage the message, you only matter if you’re beautiful, and it’s repackaged that into you must learn to think that you’re beautiful no matter what shape or size. Again, it’s still movement in the right direction, but the problem that is it’s still making our value depend on how we feel about how we look. And it’s exhausting because some days you’re not going to feel beautiful and some days you might not love your body. And if your confidence depends on always feeling positive about your appearance, you’re going to still end up being trapped thinking about your body all the time. 

(22:09): 

So that’s even within body positivity, we still have girls who are trapped, who their daily thoughts about food, exercise, their body, the way that they look, is still consumed with that, with their appearance. So a healthy approach is what you named, what you labelled, which is body appreciation or body neutrality, which is where we actually just don’t think about our bodies as much. Why? Because we’re doing exactly what we’re supposed to be doing, living a big, full, glorious, wonderful, adventurous life. So it’s the fact that your body doesn’t have to be beautiful to be valuable. You don’t need to love every part of your appearance every day. Your body’s not the most interesting thing about you. Your body is for living your life, not for constantly judging, fixing or perfecting. And so again, real freedom, which is I know what I want for my daughters and I would say most… 

(22:54): 

And look, and for myself, to be honest, again, I’ve worked hard. I actually had an eating disorder through my teen years, so these conversations really hit home for me. And I’ve had to do so much unlearning to not pass this message and my thoughts and my feelings onto my own daughters. But I now know that real freedom doesn’t come from feeling beautiful all the time. It comes from thinking about myself less, living more and building a life that’s way bigger than my appearance. I know that my value and worth now… And again, any mom that’s like, “How do you say that?” This has taken me years of work to get to this point, that my value and worth is now 100%. It’s not tied to how I look. It doesn’t mean I don’t take pride in how I look. It doesn’t mean I don’t love fashion. 

(23:33): 

It doesn’t mean I don’t love clothes and getting dressed, but I know from day to day it doesn’t change based on that. So again, it’s taking the shift away from how we look onto how we’re living our life and where our value and worth actually lies. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (23:45): 

Let’s flip the switch on that and just start focusing. I love that body neutrality phase. It’s so good and it’s so refreshing to hear. And like you said, there’s so much unlearning that we have to do and what we grew up with and you don’t want to pass that on to your daughters. So even us learning that new language and being able to reframe our own thinking of our bodies will then also pass on to our children. But then also, yeah, just reminding them that their body is functional and is there to support them and live their best life through it. And it’s such a great way of thinking about it. 

Emma (Guest) (24:19): 

We live in this selfie world where everything is so inward and we’re always looking at ourselves, always assessing, always judging. That’s not normal. It’s not normal and it doesn’t do us any good. We are going to feel our best when we are thinking about ourselves less. If as a mom or even as a daughter, you ask your daughter, “When do you feel best about your body?” She’s going to feel best about her body when she’s not thinking about it, when she’s having fun with her friends, adventuring, hiking, playing sport, when she’s doing something other than just sitting thinking about her body. So that’s what we want to get away from, is away from this selfie world, this constant assessing, constant checking yourself on your face camera. And because why? Because we’re too busy doing our thing. 

Ad (25:00): 

Want the latest child mental health insights delivered straight to your inbox? For all the latest research, news, events, and learning opportunities to build your confidence in supporting children’s mental health and wellbeing, make sure to subscribe to our e-newsletters for families or for practitioners and organisations. Get this information and more at your fingertips by signing up today at emergingminds.com.au/subscribe. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (25:27): 

I do often wonder about my daughters and what if I did overhear them criticising their bodies? It hasn’t happened yet. I think they’re just at that age where they’re a bit young. But my question is how should a parent respond if they hear their daughter or their child, their son, criticise their bodies, or if they come to you and they tell you that someone has criticised or commented on their body? How can parents support them and what should parents do or say in that moment? 

Emma (Guest) (25:54): 

I think the most beautiful thing to do is to be asking questions. So I actually have a story with this. My daughter, she wasn’t even in school yet. Trying to think back, I reckon she was about four and a half. And it broke my heart because we were actually sitting on the beach building a sandcastle. And out of nowhere, we were just sitting playing with sand. We weren’t even talking in this moment. Out of nowhere she just said, “Mommy, someone called me fat at school the other day.” So she was in daycare still and she’s like, someone called me fat at school. I was like, wow, here we are sitting building a sandcastle. And that’s obviously where her mind went to, was this comment that was said about her at school. And so again, as a parent, our first instinct is often to be like, “No, you’re not. You’re beautiful. You’re not fat.” 

(26:31): 

And we want to fix straight away. Again, it’s unlearning because it touches something about ourselves, about what messages we’ve picked up about bodies and worth and value, and we want to fix that for our girls. That’s actually probably what we should not do. So rushing to fix this moment can be quite harmful. And so first of all, I would say for moms again, what do we need to unlearn here? Because we can’t lead them somewhere that we haven’t already gone ourselves. And so my biggest message to moms listening today is that if you are still, and we all are, unlearning these messages, working with body image… And I’m going to get to answering your question, this is just [inaudible 00:27:07], but to spend some time doing the hard work, what messages have you believed? Where have these messages come from? 

(27:13): 

What were the earliest memories in your life that you started picking this up from and how can you start unlearning and speaking to yourself with more kindness and more respect because you deserve it? And also our daughters do too, and I think we’re going to get to that. But again, our daughters are listening and they’re watching what we say. And so even to start speaking to this, how we respond to things like that that our kids say really can highlight our own feelings about these topics. So I know for me, the minute I held my first daughter, I was like, I need to do some work. I got work to do because I don’t want my daughter to have to battle the same things that I’ve battled. I want to fight these battles and win so that she can stand on my shoulders and she has a head start on this in life. 

(27:49): 

So in that moment when your daughter comes up to you or your child comes up to you with a negative comment about their body, we don’t want to rush it and fix it with compliments about their appearance. We don’t want to just dismiss it and be like, “That’s so silly. Don’t worry about it.” And we also don’t want to just shut it down because it feels uncomfortable. What we do want to do is get really curious here. So again, some questions we could ask is if it’s them saying, “I feel like this,” we could say, “Well, what makes you feel that way? Where do you think that idea came from? Has someone said that to you or have you seen something?” So again, we’re just trying to think where have you picked this message up from? We want to be able to gently help our kids to see where this message has come from. 

(28:27): 

And we can say things like sometimes we pick up these messages from social media, friends, things we hear, and again, they’re not always true. So just because we picked up these messages doesn’t mean that they are true. Can you imagine, I think in my own life, if I started to join these dots earlier, that this thought that I have didn’t just appear, it was learned. Our girls weren’t born, we weren’t born questioning our worth and value. I think back to my daughter, she was so free, she was so oblivious. She loved who she was. These are things that they start learning as they grow. So we need to start pointing out where is this coming from along the way. So what we do, for example, if someone else made the comment, I just think every opportunity is an opportunity to build empathy with our kids and to think about why someone else might believe that or where this has come from again. 

(29:12): 

So I think it’s okay to say things like, “You know what? That comment says a lot more about them than it does about you.” Also things like, I have said this to my own daughters, “I actually feel really sad for someone that thinks that way because they’ve actually been taught something unkind about bodies and that’s not what we believe about bodies. And so wow, I wonder what they’ve been taught about bodies that made them say that to you, that fat is bad or that you have to be skinny or that you have to have your hair a certain way. Wow, I actually feel really sad that that’s what they believe is important.” And so again, just building empathy there and where does this come from and why might they think that? I think we want our girls to move away from what’s wrong with me to something is wrong with that way of thinking. 

(29:51): 

That’s I think the key there is we’re like, “No, there’s nothing wrong with you. What’s wrong is that way of thinking. Your body is not broken. You are not broken as a person. What’s broken is that kind of message and that kind of thinking.” So I think that’s the big thing we want to do. And then I think where we do want to step in and be like, “Well, you’re so beautiful, you’re so perfect, you’re so this,” just bring it back to function over appearance. “Well, hey, you know what? What does your body do well for you? Even if that kid says you’re fat, what do you do well?” First of all, I mean there’s so many conversations around that fat that we could get into, but it’s function over appearance. There’s diversity over comparison. Wow, how many bodies are all different and they’re wonderful? Again, there’s no one right good body or good way to look. 

(30:30): 

I think that’s what we need to be doing with our kids in those moments, is tell me something your body did really good for you today. What are you thankful for about your body? 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (30:37): 

I’m putting all of these things in my parenting toolbox. It’s wonderful. You talking reminded me, and the story of you and your daughter on the beach reminded me and kind of why I asked this question, we were all on the making mermaid tails in the sand. And I remember her saying to me, “Well, now my legs look fat.” And I, in that moment, froze because I felt I had this pressure in my mind of like, “This is really important and I need to respond in the right way.” Because you then go to those moments when you were a child and someone said something about your body and the wrong thing was said and you kind of carry that with you. And so it’s like, for me, that moment was so important and I can’t even remember what I said. But it’s just that knowing of we don’t need to rush into that like, you’re beautiful, you’re beautiful, you’re beautiful. It’s more just like, let’s have a conversation about this. 

Emma (Guest) (31:25): 

And you can even just bring in some biology there too. Conversations I have with my girls, I’m like, “Well, fat’s essential. Everybody’s body needs fat on it to function. If you didn’t have fat, you wouldn’t be healthy. And so everyone’s body carries fat and stores fat in different ways and there’s no right or wrong way to do this.” And so I think you can just bring it back to the facts too. And again, you don’t need to give them all the information or everything at once. But it’s truth that you can continue to build on through their life. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (31:48): 

I wanted to go back to something that we were talking about, our own parents’ own body pressures and what we grew up with. And hearing our moms or our grandparents talk negatively about their bodies. And I remember when I had my daughters, I made the conscious decision, I’m not going to cover up when I go to the beach. I’m going to just wear my bathers. I’m not going to wear a baggy t-shirt. I won’t let them see me do that. And in a way I found that more empowering and went, no, it’s my body and that’s the way it looks. So I wanted to ask how parents’ own relationships with their bodies help or can shape what their children learn about their own bodies and how we can help them there. 

Emma (Guest) (32:25): 

I think first of all, we do need to be aware that yes, our girls are always listening. And so what we say and what we don’t say, whether it’s to them or whether it’s about ourselves, that they are listening to that. Our voice is actually building their inner voice. And so we do have to acknowledge that and bear that responsibility and think to ourselves, would I be stoked if my daughter had the same relationship with food exercise in their body as what I do? Would I be happy for that? Because we’re playing the long game here. So we’re like, okay, by the time they get into their early 20s, what kind of relationship would you like them to have with their food, exercise and body and work back from that? And so yeah, it’s how we look at ourselves in the mirror. It’s the comments we make about our bodies. 

(33:06): 

It’s how we talk about food. I’ve been bad today or I need to go work this off. So yeah, we really do need to make this… Now, and I don’t want to make a mom feel guilty here because again, this is all work that we’re all doing. And you can think you’re doing okay, but then you jump on Instagram or you jump on social media even as a mom and everyone’s getting plastic surgery or everyone’s getting fillers or cosmetic work done. And this is a constant battle for women because at every age and every stage in our life, we’re still being told that how could you possibly be happy right now as you’re ageing? How could you possibly be okay with how you look? And so again, we might be okay for a little while, but then we start coming into late 30s where I am now and that’s the world. 

(33:48): 

You’re almost the abnormal and there’s no judgement here. But again, we’ve got to be asking the question, why? And again, how are we going to communicate? How are we going to talk about this to our children? And that’s going to look different for everyone. What we’ve learned though can be unlearned. And I think it just looks like, again, just showing them a healthy relationship. So instead of self-criticism like, “Oh, I’m so this, I hate my way my body looks now.” These kinds of things. It’s like, “Well, my body’s changed, but that’s okay. It’s carried me through a lot.” I remember my daughters poking my belly one day and just being like, “Wow, it’s like jelly. Look, I lost my finger.” I was like, “Yeah, do you know? I grew three babies and my skin had to stretch to fit over all three of you in my tummy.” So now yeah, I full pulled my loose skin out and wobbled it. 

(34:32): 

I was like, “Yeah, look how much skin I’ve got now. How amazing that that’s what my body was able to do.” So did I walk away feeling a little bit like, oh wow, that was a lot. Yeah, I did. But at the same time, I was like, no, able to communicate that message that no, my body has done amazing things and I’m thankful for it and I’m grateful for it. And again, instead of food guilt, like I shouldn’t be eating this or I’ve been bad today, it’s no, we need to come back to, again, food isn’t good or bad. You don’t need to earn your food. You don’t need to work off food. We don’t need to punish our bodies with exercise. It’s things like why do we exercise? Do we exercise to look a certain way or do we exercise because of how it makes us feel? 

(35:12): 

And again, it’s proven now, they’ve done studies that the people that stay and exercise and have the healthiest relationship with exercises are the ones that are exercising because of what it does for their minds, because of how they feel afterwards, because of the social side of things, not because of trying to look a certain way, that that’s actually not sustainable, that kind of exercise. And so it’s all of these things, how we talk about it. And the thing is that when we stuff up, it’s still a wonderful opportunity for learning for everybody and growth. And so I’m like, we’re not always going to get this right because we’re human. And again, we’re still subject to these same messages, even though we’re not in our tweens and teens anymore, it’s still bombarding us. And so if we slip up, it’s not about being perfect, it’s about what we do next. 

(35:59): 

And so it can be like, “Hey, I didn’t like how I spoke about my body before. I’m trying to change that. I’m actually still working on it.” It’s actually still really hard for me even as a grown woman with the messages I get from social media. And so again, just switching that language with our girls and opening up those conversations and knowing, “Hey, I’m still working on this.” And again, it’s just coming back to what kind of voice do we want to be building in our girls because our voice is actually going to become her voice inside. And so that’s what we need to be focused on. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (36:27): 

It’s just those small shifts that we can make. I know with my girls, and they want go to the gym, I say, “Why are you going to the gym?” They say, “Because I want to be strong and I want to be able to run around with you for a really long time.” 

Emma (Guest) (36:39): 

Love that. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (36:39): 

And so yeah, I think making those small shifts, even dads as well, the way that they talk about it as well. 

Emma (Guest) (36:45): 

Well, I love that you brought dads into this because my dad never did, but I have witnessed and seen many situations and experiences where I’ve heard dads with their daughters present comment on other women’s bodies and comment on girls’ bodies and appearance. And again, I think being mindful that your girls are listening to that. And again, this is opening up a whole nother conversation where I’m like, what do we value women for? Rather than commenting on a woman’s appearance, what about commenting on her brain or how clever she is or how funny she is or her character or how well she can be or how strong she is? Girls in sport, they’re more likely again to get negative body comments than what a boy in sport is. And I’ve heard a lot of times this comes from dads on the sideline and things like that as well, making comments about other girls playing sport when their daughter might be there listening to them and then she’s about to jump on a field and play. 

(37:32): 

So again, it’s how are we speaking about girls? What are we celebrating? Because what we celebrate is what gets elevated. So there’s a wonderful opportunity here for dads to be elevating effort, to be elevating courage, to be elevating kindness, to be elevating showing up and giving it a go, to be elevating women in such a different way to what we see is elevated online. So I just think go for it, dads. Just be calling out all those good things in your girls. Still tell her she’s beautiful. Still tell her she’s gorgeous, but at the same time, what are you elevating in your daughters? Now as moms, I think possibly the most simple thing would just be to start thinking, would I say this to a friend? Because if you wouldn’t say it to a friend, then don’t say it about yourself. And I think that would probably be just the one thing I’d leave with moms. 

(38:17): 

And even that’s something we can teach our daughters, if you wouldn’t say it to a friend, why are you thinking it about yourself? Why are you saying it about yourself? And so challenging those inner thoughts for ourselves and for our daughters. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (38:28): 

I really think you’ve touched on this, but it is just a way of reflecting their strengths back to them and then just really looking for different things to comment on and elevate. So I wanted to ask how we help their sense of worth grow from who they are and not how they look. 

Emma (Guest) (38:44): 

And I think that’s our job as parents. We’re going to see things in our kids that no one else is going to see. I’m not saying other people won’t see wonderful things in our kids, but it’s our job to notice things that other people might miss. And I think sometimes we can just be like, “Oh, good job. You’re amazing.” But I challenge us to get a bit more specific with our kids. Things like, “I noticed when you went back and included her when she was left out. And that took a lot of courage to do that because I know your friends probably didn’t want to do that.” Or, “I just saw you kept trying, even when that was frustrating, that says a lot about your character.” And so again, giving them these specific compliments that kids walk away going, “Oh, that’s who I am.” 

(39:18): 

That’s what we want our kids to have is that pattern of that thinking of that’s who I am as a person. And so calling that out. And again, that comes from shifting our language to you are language, I think is really cool. We can be like, “Oh, that was kind. You are a kind person.” “Oh, you worked really hard on that.” To, “You are a determined person.” So actually starting to speak to their identity because again, that voice is going to become their voice. I am kind. I am a determined voices. I can do hard things. And so again, just using our language to start really to shape their identity. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (39:53): 

It’s reassuring to them to hear that, that you are this. It’s such a great way of putting it and speaking to your children. It’s very definitive. It’s not ambiguous. It’s like, this is who you are and this is how I see you and you are seen like this. 

Emma (Guest) (40:06): 

And I think we can use that in the other way too. I think sometimes when we know who our kids are and then they act or behave in a way that’s not who they are, we can still come back and be like, “You are this person. What’s going on for you right now because what you just did or how I saw you treat that person just doesn’t align with who I know that you are because I know you are this.” And so I think being able to speak to their identity and their character and who we’re shaping them and keep bringing them back to that is really important as well. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (40:33): 

Emma, I wanted to go back to what we were talking about at the beginning of the word thriving and that it’s not just about body image. And we’d want girls and children and sons not to just thrive body image wise, but also thriving is about learning to trust your feelings and knowing how to set boundaries and using your voice. So how can parents support their daughters to do this? And I know that’s a big question. 

Emma (Guest) (40:57): 

How long we got? I just want to preface probably, I just had a moment then where I just felt like I needed to say this and I probably should have said it at the beginning, but I am on the journey with you for whoever’s listening right now. I’m in the thick of this. I’m not getting this right all the time. I do not consider myself to be a parenting expert. I am passionate about raising strong girls. I’m doing my best. I’m on the ground, which I think is probably the biggest thing that I can speak from is I’m on the ground day in, day out seeing what it’s like for young girls right now and hearing from them firsthand. So that’s where a lot of this comes from. And of course from just trying to work this out with my own girls and take them down a different path to how I was maybe journeying through my young adult years. 

(41:37): 

But I actually want to start with another quick story with this. We were at gymnastics one afternoon, to answer this question about how do we build our girls’ voice and setting boundaries and those kinds of things. We were at gymnastics one afternoon and my daughter had been put in a different class and it was with this other guy. Now I was there. I wasn’t leaving early. I was like, “You’re safe. I can see you. I know you’re safe.” But she came to me and she was like, “I don’t want to go in that class.” And I was like, “Why?” She’s like, “I don’t like the teacher.” I was just still trying to get [inaudible 00:42:03]. I was like, “Why? Why don’t you like him?” She’s like, “I don’t know why. I just don’t like him.” Now, everything in me wanted to be like, “Well, that’s the class you’re in, and so you just need to go and do what you do. That’s your teacher. Don’t be rude, be nice, don’t make a scene, go and hop in that class.” 

(42:20): 

That’s my inner thought life still. I’m like, “Don’t cause a problem. Make sure you’re people pleasing. Don’t hurt anyone’s feelings. Just go and be a good girl.” That’s what I wanted to say to her. I’m so thankful that I had a moment where I had a bit of a light bulb moment and I was like, okay, this is an opportunity right here for me to teach her to trust her voice. Because I was like, “Okay, well, that’s the class you’re in. I can’t get you in another class. So if you don’t feel comfortable going in that class with that teacher, then I believe you.” It was really hard. I was like, “I believe you. We’ve just driven all the way here. I believe you.” But I was like, “But that’s your only option. So it’s up to you. You either miss out on gymnastics this afternoon or you go in that class.” 

(42:57): 

I was like, “I’m right here.” And again, I reassured, I was like, “I’m right here. I’m not taking my eyes off you. You’re safe. I’m not saying I don’t trust you and your feelings, but I have no reason to doubt that he is a safe person. I haven’t seen anything different to suggest that. I know you’ll be safe. I’m right here. So it’s up to you.” Now she got the courage to go and do the class with him, which was great. And again, I was like, “I don’t know why you’re getting those vibes,” but she was. As much as I’m on the journey, I had a moment where I was like, “Wow, good job, Emma.” I think I just parented that pretty well because if we’re going to raise girls who are strong in themselves, we need to validate their feelings and treat their feelings as information rather than this is annoying, this is inconvenient, or you’re trying to cause trouble. Because I don’t know about you, but I’m a recovering people pleaser. And so that’s how I have felt my whole life. 

(43:42): 

And so we really have work to do here. We have a lot of work to do. And there’s big conversations here because we have consent education, we have programs like this in schools now from primary school. But what we’re seeing is by the time they get to the end of high school, I still don’t think we’re seeing the fruit of that. We still have girls who in every week when I’m speaking to them in schools will say yes, they have trouble saying no to people. They often say no and they walk away and they are worried about that person’s feelings because they’ve said no and they want to go back and change their mind, or they’ve said yes to things that they don’t want to say yes to. 

(44:13): 

And so again, we need to be teaching our girls in these small everyday moments that I can trust myself and I can trust my feelings, and I can trust what’s happening in my body and really speaking to that with our girls. So again, I think back to that gymnastics and as I though back of that, what I should have said even more was things like, “Okay, this doesn’t feel right to you. Tell me more. Okay, your feelings are trying to tell you something. It’s okay to feel unsure or uncomfortable.” And so again, just really validating these feelings in our girls is really important. I think as well, what we need to do as people of all ages and women of all ages is to normalise boundaries early on, but also rethink boundaries because boundaries are not rude, they’re healthy. And we have been told and grown up in a world where as a woman, setting boundaries is rude or you’ll inconvenience someone else or you’re being impolite. 

(45:03): 

I always try and teach this to girls. I’m like, “Boundaries are not about what you’re keeping out. It’s about what you’re keeping in.” And it’s about what you’re protecting, but it’s our bodies, it’s our emotion, it’s our peace, it’s our other relationships, it’s our time, it’s our energy, it’s our reputation, it’s our online footprint. You could go on and on with girls. We talk about all these things in schools, but that’s what you are protecting. That’s what is valuable. You are valuable as a person. Again, your value and worth, it’s inherent. You have dignity, that’s being human. And so what you’re protecting when you say no to someone is you’re protecting yourself, you’re protecting those things. When you say yes to something you don’t want to say yes to, you are saying no to potentially your peace, your emotions, your heart, your time, your space, your other relationships. 

(45:45): 

And so again, it’s shifting this thinking of boundaries are a good thing and they’re healthy. Being kind, our girls they grow up being told that being kind means that you’re agreeable, that you have to say yes to everything. And that if you say no, you’re being mean or you’re unkind. And we do this in our homes. So this has been a big wake-up for me lately as well. I’ve had these moments where I’ve heard myself parenting and being like, wow, what’s the end game here? Where’s this going to leave my kids? Because for example, my son will ask my daughter for something and she’ll say, “No, I was playing with it.” Or “No, it’s something that’s really special to me.” And again, for me sometimes, people pleasing me is like, just give it to him. Let him have a go. He wants a turn. Be nice. It’s not that big of a deal. Give him what he wants. 

(46:29): 

I heard myself say… This is like the other week, this is me being real transparent. I heard myself say, give him what he wants the other week and I just about died because I was like, wow, fast-forward 20 years and that’s your inner voice, give him what he wants. Oh my gosh, Emma. And I had a moment. So what do we do as parents? We need to let our girls know that they’re allowed to say no to things that don’t feel right to them, that kind people can still have strong boundaries. You can be kind and strong at the same time. Those two things are not opposing. In fact, they go very, very well together. And that they don’t have to make everybody happy, that it’s not their job to make us happy as parents. We need to grow up sometimes and that’s okay. We need to sit with those feelings. 

(47:08): 

Give her permission to say no. So in those instances like I described with my son, I’ve changed my language. Now when she says no to her brother, I’m like, “But she said no. You can ask if you can have a turn, but she said no and she doesn’t have to say yes. It’s her special thing.” And we’ve gone down and sat back down as a family and actually set some rules around these things like, if something belongs to someone specifically, then they make the rules on that and they’re allowed to say no. And so again, it’s this fine line though, it’s still not a bad thing to consider other people, but I still want my kids to grow up being generous. So it’s this fine line of you can say no, but you also have to think about what kind of person do you want to be? 

(47:45): 

Do you want to be a person who shares? Well then when it feels good for you and it’s right for you and you feel safe to let someone use your things, then you can say yes. It’s even things like, and we’ve heard this, but not forcing affection. Give them a hug, go and give granny a kiss on her cheek. Not forcing that from our girls. And it’s just simple, you have to be polite. You have to say hi. You get to choose how you do that. So it’s just language like that with our girls, letting her speak for herself. When I go to a restaurant with my daughters, if they want something or they’ve spilled something or they need a drink of water, I’m like, “You can’t ask for it, you can’t get it.” That’s what we lay down. I’m like, “If you can’t go and ask the way to a waitress for it, then you can’t get it.” 

(48:21): 

And so again, that sounds really harsh, but I’m like, “No, I want you to be able to ask for what you want and ask for what you need.” And again, fast-forward 20 years down the track, those are the skills that I want you to have. And we start those skills from a really young age, giving them some scripts, things like proper language. “I don’t like that. Please stop.” And again, we’re getting really good at this, I think, in primary schools, “I’m not comfortable with that. I’m going to sit somewhere else.” Now, on the other end of this as well is, because I see the other side of this, is that we need to be teaching girls how to accept boundaries as well because… And our girls in friendships, they’re not very good at this. Their friend might say to them, “Hey, I need some space today.” And then they’re all up and, “What have I done wrong? Talk to me, talk to me.” And they follow them around like a little puppy all day and I’m like, “Hey, your friend’s told you she wants some space.” 

(49:05): 

So again, what does it look like to respect people’s boundaries? See, it’s not just about setting them, it’s about how we receive them as well. That’s what being a good human is, that’s empathetic, that’s compassion. And so if your friend said, “Hey, I need some space.” It’s teaching our girls to be like, the only three appropriate responses. “Okay, that’s all right. All good.” You might say to your friend, “Well, I’m here for you. Do you mind if I call you after school today and see if you’re okay? Or I might check in on you on lunchtime. You know where I am. I’m here for you if you need.” That’s being a good friend, respecting their boundaries and still saying, “I’m here for you. Love you. I’ll check in on you later.” And so again, there’s two sides to these boundaries and voices and teaching our girls these skills. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (49:42): 

I love that you can still be kind and be strong, and it is about thinking about the kind of person that you want to be. And yeah, like you said, when you are saying yes to something, but knowing yourself, who are you betraying? What are you sacrificing to please someone else? And then how does that snowball effect throughout the years? 

Emma (Guest) (50:01): 

And as women, we do this every day. We might say yes to that extra business meeting. When we say yes to that meeting, what are we saying no to? It might be no to our family. It might be a social event on the weekend and we say yes to that and what are we saying no to? And so it’s always sometimes it’s choosing your best yes. There’s different best yeses at different times. And so thinking like, is this my best yes right now? Because if I say yes to that, what am I saying no to? And so I think there’s something that we can take out of that as moms who are over-scheduled, saying yes to too many things, too many hats on. I think there’s things that we can take into that as well and learn from. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (50:35): 

And like what you mentioned, it’s okay to change your mind as well. Going back to that, it’s like it’s okay to change your mind and acknowledge that there’s been a change and how then can you move forward in the most positive way that you’ve changed your mind. But also, that’s a part of it. It’s all a part of it. 

Emma (Guest) (50:50): 

And you actually don’t need any reason to change your mind. And I’m thinking of maybe an example here where our girls find themselves in a scenario in their adult years or coming into their late teen years where it’s to do with sexual activity. And they could be right about to lock lips with someone and be like all of a sudden… Or maybe they’ve even kissed them before, but then in this moment they’re like, “You know what? I’m not feeling this anymore. I don’t really know why.” They don’t even have to know why and they don’t have to name it. They actually don’t even need to give that other person a reason. Just them saying, “I don’t feel comfortable. I’m not into this anymore,” Is actually enough. When they walk away from that, they need to realise that person might feel rejected, they might feel hurt, they might feel disappointed. 

(51:24): 

That’s okay. They’re allowed to feel that way, but it is not their job to have to go and fix that. It’s that person’s job to move away from that and to hopefully be a big enough, strong enough person to work through those feelings by themself and not put those feelings back onto our girls. But our girls need to be able to walk away from that. These are things that I think as moms sometimes we’re like, wow, had someone told me that, I can think of countless stories where I’ve found myself in situations like that over the years and then gone back and been like, “Okay, fine.” Because again, we want to please and we’re worried about someone else’s feelings at the expense of our own feelings, safety, emotions, comfort. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (51:58): 

There’s so many amazing takeaways that I could take from this and I will take from this conversation and our listeners will as well. So thank you so much, Emma. I wanted to ask you if there was one or two things from today’s chat that you really want to leave our listeners with, what would they be? 

Emma (Guest) (52:14): 

Oh, can I take it on a tangent and not really summarise, but just drop this, that I think sometimes we can come away from any podcast or any information overload at the moment and we can feel really overwhelmed. I think it’s so noisy right now as to what we should be doing as parents, what should we be saying? So I would say as you come away from this podcast or whatever else you listen to this week, listen to this podcast, by the way, first. Listen to Emerging Mind Family, but then just dial down the noise for a little bit and just listen to your daughter because I think sometimes we have so much noise that we forget. We have a problem happening with our kids and we’re like, oh, I’ll find a podcast on it, rather than just like, I’m just going to go listen to my kids. 

(52:55): 

And you know what? Amazing that we have the information that we have because you don’t know what you don’t know and how much better to offer our kids for it. But at the same time, sometimes it’s at the expense of just trusting our own instinct as parents and then just connecting with our kids. So I would say go right now. Take delight in your daughter. Take delight in her. Connect with her. Don’t worry about correcting her for the rest of the day. This is another thing for me, how many moments of correction do I have versus moments of connection with my kids? And so just connect, get silly, laugh, have fun. When was the last time you just played a game or talked about nonsense rather than trying to make every moment a teachable moment? So go and take delight in your daughter. Make her feel and know that you take delight in her. And that would be what I would leave parents with to finish this. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (53:39): 

I will be doing exactly that. Thank you so much, Emma. Thank you for joining us. 

Emma (Guest) (53:44): 

My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. 

Narrator (53:52): 

Visit our website at www.emergingminds.com. au/families for a wide range of free information and resources to help support child and family mental health. Emerging Minds leads the National Workforce Centre for Child Mental Health. The National Workforce Centre for Child Mental Health is funded by the Australian Government Department of Health and Aged Care under the National Support for Child and Youth Mental Health Program.