Transcript for
How a speech pathologist can support your child

Narrator (00:02): 

Welcome to the Emerging Minds Families Podcast. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (00:05): 

Hi, I’m Nadia Rossi, and you are listening to an Emerging Minds Families Podcast. 

(00:10): 

We would like to pay respect to the traditional custodians of the land on which this podcast is recorded, the Kaurna people of the Adelaide Plains. We also pay respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples, their ancestors and elders, past, present, and emerging from the different First Nations across Australia. 

(00:32): 

Every child develops at their own pace, and sometimes our children will need extra support from a health professional. It can feel overwhelming at first when seeking help, knowing where to start, and how to best prepare your child to get the most out of their sessions. Today we are doing a deep dive into one of the health professions that we often see supporting children in their development. 

(00:51): 

Speech pathologists: speech pathology goes far beyond helping children pronounce tricky sounds or building their vocabulary. In this episode, we are speaking with Sally Venus, a paediatric speech pathologist with over 25 years’ experience, to unpack what a speech pathologist does, and how their role plays a vital part in supporting the mental health and wellbeing of children and young people. 

(01:13): 

Welcome, Sally. Thank you for joining us today. 

Sally Venus (Guest) (01:15): 

Thank you. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (01:16): 

Sally, at Emerging Minds Families, we acknowledge that families come in many forms, and so we always like to start our episodes with asking you to tell us a bit about who makes up your family? 

Sally Venus (Guest) (01:28): 

My family is a family of five. I have two young adult children, not long out of school, and my third child is in his last years of schooling. We also have a border collie who’s very much part of our family, so we’re probably a family of six. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (01:43): 

Yeah. We often have the guests bringing up their dogs and talking about their dogs as a very integral part of the family. And especially a border collie would be a very active member of that family, I’m sure. 

Sally Venus (Guest) (01:53): 

Yes. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (01:53): 

Sally, we’re here to talk about your profession of a speech pathologist, and I really just wanted to start with a very general but obvious question. If you can explain to us what is a speech pathologist? 

Sally Venus (Guest) (02:05): 

Yeah. A speech pathologist, as we call ourselves here in Australia, or in the UK they’re called speech therapists. We’re the same thing. Or in the US they’ll call themselves speech language pathologists. We’re all the same. We work with people across the lifespan to support in the area of not just communication, but swallowing and eating difficulties. We work with children as young as babies with feeding and eating difficulties. With toddlers, preschoolers, school-aged children. For all of those children whose communication’s not developing as we would expect it to. 

(02:37): 

So they might have unclear speech, they might have difficulty understanding what people are saying to them, understanding spoken language, or children who might have difficulty explaining themselves. So getting their message across. Have difficulty finding words, or just taking a long time to say what they mean. Or school-aged children who have difficulty with spelling, reading, and writing. That’s another big area of speech pathology support. Speech pathologists also work with adults who might have neurological difficulties or acquired injuries. 

(03:11): 

My area of speech pathology is I work with young children and their families. It’s a very important part of what I do is working with families to build their capacity to help their child’s communication. And mostly, I work with children up until about seven or eight years of age is the predominant area that I work in. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (03:28): 

Yeah. And I was wondering what age group are you seeing coming to you to help navigate through those difficulties? 

Sally Venus (Guest) (03:34): 

Children will come to me when they’re as young as 18 months of age. In fact, that’s the age, if a parent’s concerned at 18 months, I would really like to see them, because there’s lots that children are doing before they actually start to say words that is important part of their communication development. So I’d like to see them at 18 months if a parent is at all concerned. 

(03:55): 

Sometimes parents will contact me when their child is three or four, because they are starting to get out in the world and go to childcare or kindie, and they might have unclear speech, and other people can’t understand and they might be well understood at home, but other people can’t understand them. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (04:11): 

I think that’s something that I’d love to touch on as well. As a parent, and as a child develops, what should parents be looking out for in their child at different ages and stages of where they might need those extra supports? Signs that a parent might go, “Okay, we might need to go and start this process?” 

Sally Venus (Guest) (04:28): 

Yeah. So with really little children, the obvious thing is that they’re not starting to use words. But it’s more than just words. It’s about how they try and get their message across. So for some young children, it might be that they’re having difficulty even playing or seeking interaction. So I’m a bit of a sucker for in the supermarket, if I see a baby in a trolley, I’ll try and smile at them and see if they smile back at me, just because I love that interaction. But those sorts of things are really important early stages of communication. 

(04:57): 

Will toddlers start to copy you? So will they maybe copy a facial expression, or will they try and copy what you are doing? If you are trying to put a spoon in a cup and stir something, will they start to copy you? That’s the sort of early things that are before words and are important as well. So in toddlers, it might be that they’ve got all the intention to communicate, almost like they’re talking in their own language. So they might be getting very frustrated that you can’t actually understand what they’re saying. 

(05:24): 

And for, I’ll say older children, but they’re still quite young… early school-age children. If they’re still having difficulty with their clarity of speech sounds once they get to school, then that is something that speech pathologists can help with. Because children should, by the time they get to school, should be using most of the sounds of adult speech. So there are still some sounds that children are learning how to say once they get to school age, but, really, they should be readily understood and be able to explain themselves easily. 

(05:54): 

It’s not necessarily the question of, “What did you do at lunchtime today?” or, “What did you do at school?” That’s a really hard question for children, and you’ll usually get not very far with that question. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (06:02): 

Yes. Yes. 

Sally Venus (Guest) (06:07): 

It’s not even worth asking it. But if something’s bothering them or if they’re really excited about something, can they actually combine all of their thoughts and words and ideas to share that with you? 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (06:16): 

I love what you said that it’s also about communication. I think, as someone who is learning about speech pathology and what your profession does, you can just think, “Oh, it’s about talking and helping kids how to talk,” but it’s so much about their bodily… like their facial communication, and then also we go into swallowing and other areas as well. Can we talk a bit more about what parents can notice in the swallowing, or the feeding, and what signs they can look out for in those ages and stages? 

Sally Venus (Guest) (06:43): 

Yeah. So speech pathologists do work with babies who are having difficulty even with breast or bottle feeding. That would be in conjunction with other health professionals as well. And then when they get onto having a go at solids, if they’re having difficulties with biting, chewing, managing different consistencies and textures, and that’s where we overlap with other allied health staff. 

(07:09): 

So sometimes children might be very fussy eaters if they have particular sensory preferences. So they might not like particular textures or consistencies, and that might be part of a broader picture, where we might tap in with occupational therapists to help a child learn to manage different consistencies and textures. I think when it comes to older children with difficulties with feeding and eating, sometimes that might be part of a wider presentation if there are other medical issues going on. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (07:39): 

It’s wonderful to hear about the wraparound of that support team of health professionals that you work with and communicate with, like an OT and other allied health professionals, there to help the child. 

Sally Venus (Guest) (07:51): 

That’s right. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (07:51): 

I wanted to go back and talk a bit about schooling, and even daycare. I just know from my experience, with my girls heading to daycare and being at school, that sometimes I would get a notice that a speech pathologist might be visiting. What are the next steps for a family to access a speech pathologist? 

Sally Venus (Guest) (08:08): 

I think it’s great that it’s much more common for speech pathologists to be out in places like childcare and kindie, and that places like that are taking up the opportunity for us to help with children attending those centres. And I would say, if that’s on offer, grab the opportunity, without forgetting that you know your child best, and that you are the best person to advocate for your child. But also being able to recognise that the staff in these centres have a wealth of knowledge of children, and that they just want what’s best for your child as well. 

(08:38): 

So I think take it as a team approach. Take the offer of a speech pathologist being able to observe your child and give some information about whether it would be worth going further down that road. But also, taking it as a team. And the more that you can work together with the staff rather than a no for some parents, it can be a bit of a shock that things aren’t going according to their plan for their child’s development, but everyone’s best interest is for the child. 

(09:06): 

In saying that, the places to follow up would be: use the services of the staff there that know your child best, and they may well know about local networks of other allied health staff that they work with, and that they would recommend. Word of mouth is a great way to find someone that’s right for you and your family. Child and youth health nurses, also a great starting point to find out what’s available for you. And, of course, your GP. 

(09:32): 

There are local GP Plus centres that offer public speech pathology services, but I can’t also reinforce enough that go with your gut. If you go to a medical consult and a GP is saying, “It’s okay. It’s okay if they’re not talking when they’re two,” but if you’re still concerned, then don’t settle with the wait-and-see approach, because it’s your child’s best interest that you are trying to support. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (09:56): 

Is it referral-based? 

Sally Venus (Guest) (09:58): 

You do not need a referral, no. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (10:00): 

Oh. I didn’t know that. 

Sally Venus (Guest) (10:01): 

No. There are certain sort of funding streams that families can access that you’ll need a GP referral for accessing that funding. But just to turn up to see me, no. Anyone can just turn up. So no, it’s sort of an open door. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (10:16): 

I wanted to talk a bit more about that first time of parent has engaged with a speech pathologist, they’ve booked in, and they’re at their first session, and what can they expect? 

Sally Venus (Guest) (10:25): 

My initial question I ask families when they first come to me is, after we’ve done our introductions and I might take a lot of background information, a sort of case history, I want to know about the child’s personality. Some parents will say to me, “They’ll be really shy. They won’t even talk to you. So what’s the point of coming?” That’s useful for me to know. And if I have a child who’s like that, then I’ll say, “It’s okay. They don’t have to play with me. They can play with you and I can observe.” And I guess I take a bit of pride in the fact that I can eventually win a child over and let them go at their pace to warm up. 

(10:58): 

On the other hand, can have children who bowl straight in and are very keen and confident, and that’s okay too. I can bring a child back to where I want to direct what we’re going to get out of the session. But a very important question I always ask my families is, “What were you actually hoping to get out of today? Why have you come to see me?” And sometimes the answer will be, “I just want to know if there’s anything I should be worried about?” Or some parents say, “I know that we need to help my child with whatever it might be, but I’m just not sure what we should do about it.” 

(11:27): 

So I often then say if it’s just, “I’m here to see if there’s anything else I should be doing,” that sometimes it’s really helpful for me to see where a child is at now. And then I might say, “I’ll see you in three months,” or, “I’ll see you in six months” so we can track what’s changing. We might not start therapy straight away. That’s not always the definite thing. Just because you come for the first time, doesn’t mean you’re going to be signed up and committing to regular sessions. 

(11:51): 

There’ll be some chat about why they’re here, what are they concerned about? what I said about the child’s personality, what does the child like doing? What are they good at? What do they perhaps not like doing? And I often say, if parents ask me, “You don’t necessarily have to say much to the child about what you’re doing. We’re just going to go and see Sally. She’s going to play some games.” I don’t necessarily like to be referred to as a doctor. I think some children have preconceived ideas about- 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (12:16): 

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. 

Sally Venus (Guest) (12:17): 

… if I’m going to give them an injection or something like that. So just coming with the view to  everything they share with me is confidential, and that, as much as they’re happy to share with me, gives me the overall picture, and helps me then work out what’s the best course of action: how can we best help their child and their family move forward? 

(12:38): 

And also, if they’re happy for me to speak with other people that are involved with their child, whether it be kindie staff, or other allied health staff, or medical staff, because I think the more information we have about a child, the easier it is for us to work out how to support them. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (12:52): 

Before the session, is there anything they can do to prepare their child or themselves? 

Sally Venus (Guest) (12:57): 

For little children, it’s helpful… Parents might say to me, “Oh, they’re not talking much.” But once we start chatting about it, we realise that maybe they do have quite a few words. So even just keeping lists of, it doesn’t matter what format it is, it doesn’t have to be fancy. Just written on a scrap of pape, some of the words they’re trying to say, or just their observations about what their child is doing, or things that other people have mentioned to them. So, if the kindie teacher mentioned something, or. 

(13:24): 

I sometimes help parents… Sometimes when parents are trying to recall how long something has been happening or not happening for, I’ll ask some questions about, “Well, what about at Christmastime? Do you remember, was your child using words at Christmastime?” Or they might talk about when they went on a holiday somewhere, and I’ll say, “Well, when you did that, how were they talking then?” And often then people go, “Oh yeah, I remember at Christmastime, couldn’t use any words,” or… So- 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (13:47): 

It’s like a time marker in a way. 

Sally Venus (Guest) (13:50): 

Yeah. And to help parents give a bit more specific- 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (13:53): 

Yeah. 

Sally Venus (Guest) (13:53): 

And also, to reinforce to them, things have changed- 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (13:56): 

Yeah. 

Sally Venus (Guest) (13:56): 

… since Christmas, even though you might think that they haven’t. So attaching them to life events that have cropped up along the way, that they’ve mentioned to me. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (14:04): 

I think every parent, I guess, aligns their child against societal expectations. But when you write it out, and you may not think they’re doing much, but when you write it out in front of yourself, or you ask other people in that child’s world, they may be doing more than what you think they’re doing, and just think it’s such a helpful tool for parents just to be able to write it out and really think about it. 

Sally Venus (Guest) (14:25): 

Yes. Yes. And parents are often comparing themselves. So helping them see that the child as an overall and that this is just another aspect of development that we can help them along the way within the same way that we would help them to learn to ride a bike. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (14:38): 

I wanted to talk a bit about what parents can do at home to support their children. Is there anything parents could be doing to support their children in their speech, or in their swallowing, or any kind of communication? 

Sally Venus (Guest) (14:50): 

Just be present for your child. Enjoy interacting with them. Little children benefit really well from routines, so if you can make things part of your routine. I was thinking about how to mention about the whole screen time topic, given that’s such an important thing for families these days. And I think if we can use screen time to help children bridge the gap between what they see on their screen, if they’re watching something, and then put that into their real life. So re-enact what was happening with Bluey. 

(15:22): 

So let’s go and copy what Bluey did, or let’s pretend we’re some of the characters from Paw Patrol, or whatever it might be, so that the child sees the link between what’s happened on the screen and that we can do that in real life, so that the child’s active when they’re engaged with that screen time rather than just passive staring at it and not taking as much in. 

(15:41): 

Reading stories is a fantastic way to develop children’s, not only their listening skills with that time together as a parent and a child, but also their vocabulary. And we know that the greater a child has in terms of their size of vocabulary, that’s a great predictor for success with literacy development as well. So we want to have kids to have great oral language skills when they’re moving into having to then develop their written communication. 

(16:08): 

So I think as much as we can involve children in our daily activities, give them the vocabulary around what we are doing, and don’t shy away from using the complicated words. And I think it’s not uncommon for parents to sort of be surprised when this little complicated word comes out of a little person’s mouth. They go, and you realise that’s how they learn words, and they’ll test it out again. 

(16:30): 

So give them all of the interesting words. Instead of just saying, “It’s dirty,” can you use a more interesting word to describe something as being “it’s mucky?” Use the complicated language that that’s another word for, so that we are adding more words to their vocabulary bank. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (16:46): 

I love that, taking the idea from the screen time and bringing that into your play. It’s also giving parents ideas of what to do. And then they’re used to that language around that show as well. So what a great way to bring that world into your world. And then you are helping them with their development at the same time, and modelling, and scaffolding, and all these things that we’re told are great for kids, in just such a fun way. And it can, I guess, take the pressure off as well if you are having those concerns, that you’re just having a moment of play, or reading a story, and playing with words. And it’s great for connection as well. So they’re wonderful ideas. 

Sally Venus (Guest) (17:24): 

Even, it just comes to mind. I heard a child the other day say, “Oh, biscuits.” We all know from Bluey. And then using an explanation about what that means when we say, “Oh, biscuits,” and what’s another word we could use? So we’re talking about our frustration or our emotions, and this is what one character says, and this is another way we could say it. And yeah, transferring that into learning about other things as well. 

(17:50): 

I would really encourage as well, encouraging parents to get their children to look up around the world. So commenting on what you’re seeing when you’re driving. A little toddler sitting in the car seat and you’re sitting at the traffic lights, commenting on if you see a really big dog, or a really fluffy dog standing waiting to cross the road, comment on it. Draw your child’s attention to it. So you’re giving that description about it. 

(18:13): 

You’re not asking the child questions about it. I think questions is something that can be really direct, and really confronting, for children to then have to be able to answer. But if we comment, “Oh wow, look at that really white, fluffy dog,” and then pausing, and a child might then make their own comment about it. And then we’ve started a back and forth conversation. So encouraging children to notice what’s happening in their world. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (18:38): 

Giving them space to talk. I think sometimes, as well, as parents, you’re kind of trying to get this back-and-forth going, and you might fill in their gaps, whereas they just sometimes take a bit longer to- 

Sally Venus (Guest) (18:50): 

Bit longer. That’s right. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (18:50): 

Form their thoughts, and form their sentence, and what they want to say. They’re still learning. Even their mouth moving around certain sounds. So it’s that learning to kind of step back and give them time. 

Sally Venus (Guest) (19:01): 

Definitely. Yeah. The pause. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (19:03): 

Sally, I wanted to talk about misconceptions around speech pathologists, and any that you have encountered. 

Sally Venus (Guest) (19:09): 

I think the biggest one that I come across, especially when I say I work with children, is we are not just lisps and stutters. And probably that’s come across in this conversation, because I haven’t talked about either of those things. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (19:21): 

Yes. 

Sally Venus (Guest) (19:21): 

But yes, speech pathology is about communication as a whole. And whilst we do support people who have lisps and people who stutter, it’s far more than that, and communication is far broader than that. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (19:35): 

Thank you for clearing that up. Sally, when we do support a child, their speech and swallowing development, how have you seen it support a child’s overall mental health and wellbeing? 

Sally Venus (Guest) (19:46): 

For sure. I think communication is basic human right for children and adults to be able to participate in whatever their community is and society. And if we can support their communication with supporting them to build positive relationships with the people around them, their self-confidence, their self-esteem, and everyone can contribute in whatever way. And it might not just be verbal communication. I mean, speech pathologists work with people who don’t communicate with spoken words. So we are helping people contribute in whatever way, because everyone’s got something to say. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (20:18): 

We’ve come towards the end of the question, Sally, but if you could leave our audience with some final thoughts to remember from our chat today, what would they be? 

Sally Venus (Guest) (20:26): 

I am a big one for wanting parents to know that they’re the greatest advocate for their child, and that they need to speak up for their child. But using the people around them, so the team. Whether it’s, and I say “team,” but people probably don’t think of it as their team. But it is. It’s their team or their village. So use the people around them and the information they’ve got. Blend all of that together to support your child. 

(20:48): 

So rely on other, whether it’s kindie staff or childcare or even your family, extended family and people who have expertise in this area as well, to help you navigate. And I think the more you can use those people around you, but also share what you know about your child, because everyone will be at a different step as well about how they go about supporting their child. Everyone has different capacity to support their child. 

(21:14): 

And also, we talked a bit about the unexpected nature of things. So everyone will be at a different step along that road as well. So advocate for your child, but also use everyone else around you to help you move along that path together. All these people are there because they really like to support family, and that’s the ultimate goal. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (21:34): 

Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Sally. I’ve learned so much, and it’s been so wonderful to chat with you. So thank you. 

Sally Venus (Guest) (21:39): 

Thank you. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (21:40): 

And thank you to our listeners for joining us. If you would like to keep up to date with our latest conversations, we’d love it if you would like and subscribe to our Emerging Minds Families Podcast channel. You can also find us on Instagram @emergingmindsau, or on Facebook at Emerging Minds Families. 

Narrator (21:56): 

Visit our website at www.emergingminds.com.au/families for a wide range of free information and resources to help support child and family mental health. Emerging Minds leads the National Workforce Centre for Child Mental Health. The Centre is funded by the Australian Government Department of Health, under the National Support for Child and Youth Mental Health Program.