Transcript for
Childhood bullying: When a child engages in bullying behaviour – part two

Narrator (00:02):

Welcome to the Emerging Minds Families podcast.

Nadia Rossi (Host) (00:05):

Hi, I’m Nadia Rossi and you’re listening to an Emerging Minds Families podcast. Welcome to part two of our series on exploring the complex issue of bullying. Last episode, we looked at the experience of children who are bullied. This episode, our focus is shifting to explore when a child is engaging in bullying behaviour. I would like to welcome back our guests, Jessica Staniland. Jess is a clinical psychologist and director of counselling and psychological services at Trinity Grammar School. Welcome back, Jess. It’s great to have you here again with us today.

Jessica Staniland (Guest) (00:37):

Thanks so much for having me, Nadia.

Nadia Rossi (Host) (00:39):

Jess, I know no parent wants to think that their child is engaging in bullying behaviour, but how do we recognise these behaviours may be occurring in our child?

Jessica Staniland (Guest) (00:49):

So often you will be told by another parent or the school, so I think often it does come up to you and you’re told, but I think you might start to notice that there are some changes perhaps in the way that your child is engaging with their siblings. Maybe they’re fighting more, there might be more aggression, reactivity. You might even notice that there’s been some changes in their life and it might be impacting how they’re socialising or it might be impacting how they’re going with their learning. So I think it’s really important for us to start to have a think if we suspect that there is bullying, have a think about, has there been anything that has been a big change for them in their life that perhaps might’ve impacted them emotionally and socially to have led to the change in their behaviour?

Nadia Rossi (Host) (01:37):

You might’ve just touched on that, but what do we need to think about if our child is engaging in bullying behaviour?

Jessica Staniland (Guest) (01:44):

Yeah. So I think reflecting on what’s going on for them, whether there’s change, whether there’s been a trauma, whether they’re suffering from mental health difficulties, whether maybe they’ve shifted into a particular year and they’re really struggling with the change in demands and expectations or their learning. Maybe they’ve started to develop a new group of friends at school and maybe they’re not as much of a great influence on them. Maybe, put together, that results in some changed behaviour. Is there a new diagnosis that they’ve just got? Are they struggling with social awareness? Are they a little bit behind socially and maybe missing some of those cues? Or do they think some of their behaviours that they’re engaging with are funny and they actually just don’t realise that they’re having an impact on some of the other people around them?

Nadia Rossi (Host) (02:29):

And Jess, can you talk about what parents can do to support their child if they’re exhibiting bullying behaviour?

Jessica Staniland (Guest) (02:38):

The number one most important thing is to try and stay calm. I think jumping straight into being angry and setting big consequences and discipline around their behaviour straight away without having sat with it and understood it a little bit more is probably going to put your child offside and perhaps might not actually lead to the outcome that we want. So I think trying to stay calm, try not to jump straight into blaming them, but I think just exploring with them, do they understand what they’re doing is actually regarded as bullying. Inform them what you’ve been told, whether that is that they’ve been told by another parent or the school that their behaviour is actually impacting somebody else. Try and gauge their understanding of why they’re engaging in that behaviour and try and understand, I guess, whether that’s a new behaviour or whether it’s something that they have been doing for a while.

(03:26):

I think there are two parents within the family. Just make sure you’re being really consistent in that approach that you’re presenting as a united front. We all have slightly different parenting styles to our co-parent, but I think it’s really important to try and present similarly on these issues in particular. And then I think following that, just trying to do a little bit more problem solving with them around what had led to that bullying behaviour. Was it that they were being bullied themselves? Are they copying the behaviour of a friend or somebody else they’ve seen? Where did they learn that behaviour from? Or is it that they’re actually just really struggling socially and how come? What’s going on?

Nadia Rossi (Host) (04:03):

And if a parent has started this conversation with their child and the child is adamant that they are not bullying, what can a parent do if their child is adamant that they are not bullying?

Jessica Staniland (Guest) (04:14):

Yeah, absolutely. And I think there are times where we are going to come across this. I think just having a conversation to explore why your child is viewing it differently and helping them even to reflect on why do they think the other child is viewing it differently? What’s that about? How could they have got that view? How could they have come to that conclusion? Try and help them to do a bit of perspective taking. You could even engage in a bit of role play. Is it about an interpretation of behaviour or something they’ve said? So just trying to delve into it in a little bit more detail, particularly with a focus around perspective taking. If I was in that person’s shoes, how might I have viewed it? Why do you think they might’ve viewed it that way?

Nadia Rossi (Host) (05:00):

And what role do you think schools can play in this situation?

Jessica Staniland (Guest) (05:03):

So I think school play a really big role. I think there’s obviously the role that they play around the discipline, the consequences, all of that sort of thing. And I think that’s super important. But I think also school play a big role in understanding, I guess, and providing some input to the family around whether there’s been a change in their behaviour, whether they’re struggling socially or with their learning, whether they’re particularly stressed. I think that’s really important for them to try and consider. And just as it is important for the person who has been bullied to access some counselling support, I think it’s really important to help these children who are engaging in bullying behaviour to work with a counsellor around their behaviour and how perhaps they could be changing their behaviour, I guess, and working on some strategies to help communicate whatever it is that they’re trying to communicate in a more respectful manner.

Nadia Rossi (Host) (05:55):

Will the school often engage with the parents in a conversation if their child is exhibiting bullying behaviour?

Jessica Staniland (Guest) (06:02):

It really depends on the age of the child. So I think primary school, absolutely. The school will go to the parents because ultimately they’re really still learning the rights and wrongs around behaviour. And I think it’s really important that, again, we present as a united front with the parents of the school working together as a team. So yes, the school will often come to parents in high school. Look, maybe in the first kind of instance or so perhaps they won’t, but they certainly do if there’s more than one occasion. So I think if there’s repeated behaviours, yeah, the school are normally going to engage with the parent to try and help get a broader approach, I guess, and to try and really understand what’s going on.

Nadia Rossi (Host) (06:42):

Jess, what do you think parents can do from a young age to support their children in understanding that bullying behaviour isn’t appropriate?

Jessica Staniland (Guest) (06:50):

There’s plenty of things that parents can do. I think modelling appropriate behaviour from an early age is really important. So sort of modelling positive engagement with others, modelling empathy and modelling forgiveness and grace. I think parents can talk a lot about perspective taking as well, just so that their children get used to being able to put themselves in the shoes of others. I think that’s really important. Again, talking a lot about the fact that everybody has differences, everybody has strengths, everybody has differences, and that everybody deserves respect. So having those sort of conversations quite early. I think if there’s concerns around cyber bullying, I think again, parents need to be monitoring this. And the other thing is parents need to be monitoring what their children are watching even on TV, what are they picking up? And that’s really important to know if they’re witnessing aggressive or violent behaviour, we need to try and probably shift what they’re watching.

(07:44):

I think the other thing is just to help your child to develop a bit of an understanding of trying to give them an understanding or an experience around how they can help others as opposed to engage in negative behaviour is helping them to volunteer from a young age in opportunities that gives them a chance to see how other people are, to see that other people have strengths and weaknesses, and to try and learn to respect differences as well. So I think that can be a good place for parents to start.

Nadia Rossi (Host) (08:15):

So Jess, I’m wondering if it is found that your child is engaging in bullying behaviour, what approach can a parent have with their child?

Jessica Staniland (Guest) (08:27):

So I think whilst I’ve talked a lot about being really open and curious with your child around what is going on and how perhaps they interpreted a certain situation a certain way, look, if there is concrete examples of them having engaged in inappropriate behaviour that is mean, disrespectful, repeated towards another child, look, I think it’s really important, especially from parents, to be able to have that conversation with your child that it’s not acceptable and that it’s not respectful behaviour and that it’s obviously disappointing. I think it’s important to have that conversation in a really calm way. We don’t want to yell, we don’t want to go over the top. So I think it’s important to make sure that there is a consequence, but also that there is a learning from it and that we can help support them to engage differently next time.

Nadia Rossi (Host) (09:17):

And Jess, do you have any appropriate or age appropriate consequences that you would suggest to a parent?

Jessica Staniland (Guest) (09:23):

Again, it really depends on the age of the child. I think removal of a particular privilege that they have that might be removing time that they spend on their iPad or removing time that they spend on their TV is an appropriate consequence. But obviously the time that you do that is going to very much depend on their age. Younger children obviously need much less time removed and it needs to be really immediate for them. Whereas for an older child, it might be able to be slightly longer, still should be relatively immediate, but you could wait for a period of time. So look, I think if you’re having any difficulty with those sorts of things, I think it’s really important to seek out a psychologist for support or access a parenting programme. There’s some really good ones out there.

Nadia Rossi (Host) (10:04):

And Jess, I was just thinking, I’m wondering if you have any advice for parents who may feel their own emotions towards bullying if their child is displaying bullying behaviour. I know we’ve all dealt with bullying in different facets of our lives, so I’m wondering what advice you give to parents in that situation.

Jessica Staniland (Guest) (10:29):

I think that’s a really good question, and I think we all probably experienced that at some point. You naturally jump into that, “I couldn’t possibly have the child that’s engaging in bullying behaviour.” Perhaps you’ve been bullied in the past and perhaps you feel like you’ve talked about it a number of times with your child and you’re just so disappointed that you’ve got to that point or mortified that other parents, what they might think of you. So I think it’s really important that that stuff is about us and to remember that that stuff is about us and it’s not actually about our child. So I think at that stage it’s really important to step back and to recognise that actually that that’s my own stuff. That’s not my stuff related to my child. And access support when you need it, I think that’s a really important thing to do.

(11:10):

Even just having a conversation with a friend or your partner or husband, wife about how it’s making you feel, but doing that at a time where you’re not doing it in the presence of your child is really, really important, so try and separate. If you’re feeling agitated, frustrated, that is not the time to have a conversation with your child around their behaviour because ultimately it ends up being a negative conversation and it’s being fuelled by our own feelings. So I think deal with our own feelings and behaviour first, when you’re calm, come back and have the discussion with your child.

Nadia Rossi (Host) (11:46):

Jess, how can we foster a culture in our young people that values kindness, understanding and acceptance?

Jessica Staniland (Guest) (11:54):

It really comes down to that starting conversations around empathy, perspective taking from an early age. I think, again, talking about everybody has strengths and weaknesses, reading books that look at those sorts of things is really important. Looking at books that talk about everybody deserving respect is really important. Having conversations with your child about what they see on TV is not always real life and actually shouldn’t necessarily be a role model for how they engage in behaviour. I think you find even in cartoons these days, there’s some aggressive behaviour and you think, “Gee, if my child is watching that, is that what they think is an appropriate behaviour to engage in?” So I think helping them to decipher and to understand and to process some of the information that they see out there is really important from an early age. And that’s our role as a parent is to sort of say, we want to pay attention to that, but we probably don’t want to pay attention to that.

Nadia Rossi (Host) (12:51):

Is there anything else you think parents need to consider that we haven’t covered around bullying behaviour?

Jessica Staniland (Guest) (12:58):

Look, the biggest thing is I think that there are often reasons why children are engaging in bullying behaviour. And I think it is the role of the parents, but also with the support of the school and possibly a school counsellor or an external psychologist, to uncover why is it that my child is engaging in inappropriate behaviour? And sometimes it’s about underlying challenges that perhaps we didn’t realise they had. Sometimes it might actually be about them having witnessed something that you didn’t realise that they’d witnessed. Sometimes it actually comes down to, “Gee, have we accidentally reinforced negative behaviour as parents at home? And perhaps we need some support around parenting at this particular age. Maybe we need some super parenting strategies and maybe that involves us going and accessing a parenting programme or going and seeing psychologists ourselves.

(13:47):

Is it that perhaps there’s been a period of roughness at home and there’s been a lot of stress and strain and perhaps we might’ve even dropped the ball around monitoring our child and how they’re engaging? Is the conflict resolution that they’re witnessed to not actually what we want for them down the track, and is it that we need to shift that as well?” So I think focusing on what might be going on for your child is a really important thing to do, being really inquisitive and curious around what might’ve caused us to get to this point.

Nadia Rossi (Host) (14:18):

And Jess, we always like to leave our audience with a few takeaways that they can remember and focus on at the end of our podcast. So what would be the main points you would want parents to think about from today’s conversation?

Jessica Staniland (Guest) (14:33):

I think for me, probably the biggest point is around how you engage with the school. I think try and remember that it’s going to be most beneficial if you’re working with the school collaboratively. I think it’s really easy for us to go in there and try and be the biggest advocates for our child and think, “Oh gee, my child would never do that.” But I think be open-minded and see the relationship with the school as a positive one and an alliance, and use it as an opportunity to be curious about why perhaps my child engaged in this behaviour or perhaps engaged in a behaviour that was interpreted in a certain way. So I think that’s the most important thing, to see that relationship as really important and use the school as a way of trying to understand what’s going on for your child and how you can better support them.

Nadia Rossi (Host) (15:18):

Jess, thank you so much for sharing with us today.

Jessica Staniland (Guest) (15:21):

No worries.

Narrator (15:24):

Visit our website at www.emergingminds.com.au/families for a wide range of free information and resources to help support child and family mental health. Emerging Minds leads the National Workforce Centre for Child Mental Health. The centre is funded by the Australian Government Department of Health under the National Support for Child and Youth Mental Health Program.