Transcript for
Exploring the role of grandparent carers

Narrator (00:02): 

Welcome to the Emerging Minds Families Podcast. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (00:05): 

Hi, I’m Nadia Rossi and you are listening to an Emerging Minds Families podcast. We would like to pay respect to the traditional custodians of the land on which this podcast is recorded, the Kaurna people of the Adelaide Plains. We also pay respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples, their ancestors and elders past, present, and emerging from the different First Nations across Australia. Children thrive in families of all shapes and sizes. It’s the safe, secure, and nurturing environment that helps children lead rich and full lives. This might be provided in single parent families, blended families, same sex families, and for many children and young people, it may be provided by their grandparents who care for and raise them full time. I’m excited today to speak with Mike Feszczak, the CEO of Grand Carers SA, to learn more about this lesser known caring role that many grandparents take on. Welcome, Mike. It is great to speak with you today. 

Mike Feszczak (Guest) (01:10): 

Thank you very much. It’s a pleasure to be here. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (01:12): 

Thanks for coming. Mike, at Emerging Minds Families, we acknowledge that families come in many different forms. And so I was wondering if we started today’s conversation by you telling us a bit about who makes up your family. 

Mike Feszczak (Guest) (01:24): 

Yeah, sure. Pleasure to do that. My family’s a little bit different, like most families are. I’m actually the son of Ukrainian and German refugees who ended up in Scotland just after the war, and we sort of developed our small family from that. I’ve got a brother who’s in Perth. I now live in Adelaide. My wife and I came to Adelaide 20 years ago. I’ve got two stepdaughters, one who’s gone back to the UK and one who’s gone up to Cairns. And have my own daughter who’s also in the UK, who is the mother of my two grandchildren who are eight and 12 now. And not forgetting my dog, Rufus, who is a three-year-old Labradoodle and very much the child of the family. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (02:11): 

Yeah, very important members of the family. We had a Groodle and we almost felt like it was a third child. 

Mike Feszczak (Guest) (02:18): 

Yeah, very sure. Yes. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (02:20): 

And so you’re a grandparent as well. Well, I was wondering if we could talk a bit about what the role of a grand carer is. And how that might differ from I suppose the more typical ways that grandparents interact and care for their grandchildren. 

Mike Feszczak (Guest) (02:35): 

Yeah. So we look after mainly what we call informal carers. And the word informal can be a bit of a misleading term because a lot of people think that the grandparent looks after the kids on a weekend or a Wednesday. Our carers are full-time carers, and the majority of our carers are full-time carers in that basically, they’re in loco parentis, got complete parental responsibilities for the children. Often not recognised by the government, but they have got complete care of a child 24/7. Sometimes it comes because the parents are just not in a position, just not able or not capable or not willing sometimes to look after the children. Quite often it’s for drug abuse, it’s for alcohol abuse, all those different reasons. Sometimes of mental health and they’re just not in a state where they can look after the children. 

(03:27): 

There’s lots of grandparents, myself included, who are happy to look after the kids for a bit and then hand them back. Our carers and the majority of our carers don’t have that luxury. They are there and sometimes for the full childhood. We have a video that we’ve just done where we’ve got a young girl, one of the children in care of our grand carers, Mia, and she talks about she went with her grandmother when she was two days old and she’s now 11. And 25% of our clients have been looking after the children for more than 10 years. So there’s a huge expectation. It’s a change of life. It’s not just a case of helping out the parents a little bit. It is replacing the parents. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (04:07): 

And Mike, do you feel like there’s a lot more grandparents caring for their grandchildren in this way than we perhaps realise? 

Mike Feszczak (Guest) (04:14): 

Yeah, without doubt. I’ve been in the role now for three years. I’m not really involved in the carer sector, like most people are not engaged in that. And I’ve been astounded the number of times I’ve come across different people who I know who because I’ve got this job and now saying, “Well, actually I was brought up by my grandparents, or I know somebody who was brought up by my grandparents.” And it’s like they’re coming out of the woodwork now. And I was reading an article just yesterday about David Campbell, the singer, how he was brought up by his grandmother. So it’s right across society. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (04:50): 

More than what we realise. 

Mike Feszczak (Guest) (04:51): 

Much, much more. We have 1300 registered clients, that sounds like a big number. That’s probably, and there’s no official statistics to back this up, but from what we can gather that’s probably about a third of the number of grand carers in South Australia, because it’s an informal arrangement. So quite often the state government isn’t engaged in any way, shape, or form anyway. So there’s this informal arrangement that nobody counts in stats. The census doesn’t ask questions about it, so there’s no sort of gathering of stats. So we rely on research that’s been done through universities, and that suggests there’s 100,000 children in Australia that are in informal care. So if we take the population of South Australia being 7%, that means there’s 7,000 children in South Australia that are in informal care, that are not included in the state government stats. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (05:44): 

Yeah. And when we think about the children and then the child’s life and being looked after by their grandparent, why do you feel like that role is so important in the child’s life and how does that then support the child’s wellbeing? 

Mike Feszczak (Guest) (05:58): 

The feedback that we get from the children is it’s about stability and security and safety, and all those words that provide that child with a safe and nurturing environment. And that’s what the grandparents… And I have to say that whilst the majority of our clients are grandparents, because our history was we used to be called grandparents or grandchildren, we do have aunts and uncles and other relatives who are carers as well and we support them as well. But it is about emotional stability. It’s about emotional safety, it’s about a consistent care. It’s about a safe care. It’s about somebody who actually loves them and shows that they love them. And about keeping children within their family so they’re not ending up in the state provided child protection system. And so it’s keeping children within the family, which is important. Sometimes the children do return to their parents when the parents have gone through their difficult period and they can be returned safely to the parents. So there’s still that family connection and that’s a lot easier when it’s within the family as well. 

(06:58): 

So they reduce the fears of the children, they reduce the uncertainty, they reduce the fear and abandonment that they’ve got. Their grandparents are often positive role models as well. So because they maybe not had a positive role model with their parents, so the grandparents can often provide that positive role model which can only be a positive thing for the children. And we’ve also got to remember that the majority of these children will be traumatised. So they are either being traumatised by the issues that have gone on within the parental home, but we could also be traumatised by the fact that they’ve been removed from the parental home, they’ve gone and had to live with their grandparents. It might mean a move of schools, it probably means a change of friends, change of location, change of transport, all those different issues that children will suddenly face being in a completely different place whilst they are still with their grandparents. So they’re going through a really difficult period. And with that comes things like behavioural problems and absences from school, and all those different issues because children try to find a way. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (08:01): 

Absolutely. 

Mike Feszczak (Guest) (08:02): 

And be supported. And our grand carers do a fantastic job of supporting the children. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (08:08): 

In your experience, what are some of the difficulties that you see grand carers experiencing when they’re navigating this new role? 

Mike Feszczak (Guest) (08:15): 

Okay, let me give you an example. We had an 80-year-old lady recently who was given by the Department of Child Protection, was handed her two nine-year-old twin great-granddaughters. There you go, there’s two children to look after. Where does she start? As an 80-year-old lady, how does she connect with two nine-year-old kids on a permanent basis? And one of the biggest issues that our grand carers have got is that they can’t be a grandparent. They have to be a parent and that’s very different. As we all know, the grandparents tend to be spoiled of kids and fill them with sugar, that type of thing. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (08:51): 

Absolutely. 

Mike Feszczak (Guest) (08:53): 

But they can’t be a grandparent. So there’s this lady, where does she start? How does she connect with the health authorities? How does she connect with the school authorities and the children? We even hear stories about the children don’t want to go to school with a grandparent because they’re going to get bullied because they’re there with this old person. So there’s all these different nuances that are going on in the background. So lots and lots of difficulties. The financial strain, the average age of our clients is 65, 50% of them are suffering from food insecurity. The financial strain is huge. They don’t get any financial support from the state government. They are entitled to some Centrelink payments, but those are pretty limited. How do they survive? We’ve got clients who have used their Super up to look after their kids. So there’s the financial strain. But the physical strain when you are older, I’m older, I know that I haven’t got the energy that I used to have 20, 30 years ago when I brought up my daughter. I’ve got a lot less energy than I had at that time. 

(09:47): 

So there’s the physical strain, the mental strain, the worry about the finances, the worry about the child, the inter-family issues where you’re looking after the child of your own children, but that might not be an easy thing to manage. There are all the different issues about the control over the child and different expectations of managing the children, so that can have its issues. There’s lots and lots of different issues that front up, and it’s a change of life for these people. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (10:18): 

It’s something they never really expected. 

Mike Feszczak (Guest) (10:21): 

Well, for many of them they thought that was it. They’re empty-nesters and it was time to move on and do whatever they wanted to do. But there’s also a grief there because there’s a grief not only about having to take on the child and the change of life, but there’s a grief in terms of what did I do wrong? Why did my child go this way? 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (10:36): 

Sure. 

Mike Feszczak (Guest) (10:37): 

And the simple issues, dealing with technology- 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (10:40): 

Tricky at the best of times. 

Mike Feszczak (Guest) (10:43): 

I’m not bad at technology, but the teenagers run rings around me. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (10:45): 

Yeah. When we think about these difficulties and the experiences that you have come across, how have you seen some grand carers overcome these difficulties or how have you seen them, I guess make a better situation out of the difficulties? 

Mike Feszczak (Guest) (11:00): 

Generally, it’s just down to doggedness and care. They’ve got enough care to put the effort in to look after the children and to keep going. Financially, like so many people nowadays because of the rise in cost of living, they just struggle. And they do what they can and they scrimp and they save and they go to food banks, and they do all those different things that everybody that’s struggling financially does. But there’s a doggedness about them. They are determined to bring up the children in a safe and nurturing environment to the best of their ability and have some fantastic successes. Just talking to a couple who brought up their grandson from a very, very young age. And he’s just qualified in the army and they’ve just gone to his passing out parade and he had all his fine uniform and they’re so proud of him. But that’s been because they’ve just not given up on him and they have just continued throughout his youth basically. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (11:58): 

What strengths do you see in the grand carers that you come across? 

Mike Feszczak (Guest) (12:02): 

I just see a strength of character. The fact that their lives changed, they’ve accepted it, they’ve taken on board a sense of responsibility where they’ve done that. The love that they show as well, the love and the care that they show the children and even towards the parents of the children because they have those concerns, naturally have those concerns. So there’s all those things going on, but they just have this ability to push through it. And there’s just the strength of character and maybe it’s something that we expect. Majority of them are probably going to be baby boomers now, and maybe it’s just something we expect of that generation and they have that. They’ve gone through a life which has almost prepared them for this in some ways. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (12:49): 

And Mike, do you see a real difference in children’s mental health and well-being once they come and live with their grandparents on a full-time basis? 

Mike Feszczak (Guest) (12:56): 

Yeah, without doubt. They’ve been taken from a traumatic situation and whilst they’re still traumatised, they’ve been taken from the everyday traumatic situation that they’re having to face in their parental home and they’re now in a much safer space. And then once they realise they’re in a safer space and they’ve spent time with their grandparent and they’ve worked out exactly where they fit in it all, you do see changes. And you see children getting engaged in different things. There was a young guy, Henry, who’s on the autism spectrum, had some violent behaviours. We supported him getting a guitar and getting some guitar lessons, and his behaviours changed dramatically over a period of time. And I’m not talking years, I’m talking months his behaviours changed to the point where he ended up in an orchestra and came quite a proficient guitar player. And that was as a result of being encouraged and being supported by his grandparents. And I’m finding those able to help them a little bit as well. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (13:50): 

What a beautiful story, just to give him that one thing to kind of be excited about and feel welcomed to and feel proud of. And have the grandparents in turn and feel proud of him. Mike, I wanted to talk a bit about Grand Carers SA, and what supports are available? 

Mike Feszczak (Guest) (14:07): 

So we are a small not-for-profit. We are based in Pitt Street in the City Centre. Anybody who’s a grand carer, and it doesn’t have to be grandparents, as I mentioned, it can be aunts, uncles, aunts, brothers, sisters, as long as they’re a kinship carer mainly. And we’ve got a website and it’s grandcarers.au, and you can download all our contact details on that. And the supports that we provide are mainly in three sort of streams. So we provide personal support, so we have a telephone helpline so we can provide guidance as to where to go for different helps. We don’t do counselling, we don’t provide legal advice, but we know where those things can be achieved and we can connect people to the grandparent advisors at Centrelink. We do peer support, a dozen locations across South Australia, everywhere. Port Lincoln, Yorktown, Murray Bridge, Christie’s Beach, Parra Hills, Port Adelaide, I’ve missed a few but you get the impression. 

(15:06): 

Those are monthly meetings where people can come and they can just have a chat with one of our volunteers, just have a cup of tea, piece of cake, talk to other people who are in the same boat. And quite often it’s interesting to find that the other clients who are there and have been there for some time probably got some of the answers that new people need. So there’s a bit of budding going on as well in the villages. So that’s really good. That breaches isolation. I’ve had people, grandparents say to me, “That hour and a half meeting is my respite.” 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (15:35): 

Yeah, absolutely. 

Mike Feszczak (Guest) (15:36): 

Yeah, that’s my opportunity to get away from the house, get away from the chores in the house. But just have that time with other people and with other adults who are in this similar situation. And the third stream or mainstream is through funding. We have a philanthropically funded fund called the Education and Development Fund. And that provides with where a carer can’t get a payment for things like school shoes, school uniform sports uniform, sports kit, a guitar, trumpet, dance lessons, where they can’t get a payment for that we will do our best to support that through this fund. There are limits to it and all the information’s on our website under services. We haven’t got a huge amount of money, and we do try to spread it as much as we can. I think it was 360 kids benefited from it last year. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (16:29): 

Wow, that’s amazing. What advice would you offer to anyone, Mike, listening today who knows a grand carer and ways that they might be able to support them? Just the everyday person. 

Mike Feszczak (Guest) (16:41): 

Ask them how they are, ask them how they’re doing, ask them if they need any help. There’s lots of ways that people can help, whether that be supporting them with maybe cooking a meal or doing some child binding or helping with transport and all those different things. Tell them about Grand Carers SA and we will try our best to help them. That’s what other people can do in the moment. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (17:00): 

Mike, one final question for you today. If there are any grand carers listening today, what would you like them to know? What message do you have for them? 

Mike Feszczak (Guest) (17:10): 

Thank you. Thank you for looking after the children in our community. Thank you for looking after the children in your families. I know you didn’t expect that, but I know what a great job you’re doing. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (17:20): 

What a beautiful message to end on. Thank you so much for meeting with me today and talking with us. 

Mike Feszczak (Guest) (17:25): 

Thank you for the opportunity. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (17:26): 

Thank you. 

Mike Feszczak (Guest) (17:26): 

Cheers. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (17:27): 

And thank you to our listeners for joining us. If you would like to keep up to date with our latest conversations, we’d love it if you like and subscribe to our Emerging Minds Families podcast channel. You can also find us on Instagram at Emerging Minds AU or on Facebook at Emerging Minds Families. You have been listening to an Emerging Minds Families podcast. If anything spoken about in today’s has been distressing for you or you find yourself struggling, please reach out for help. You can call Lifeline on 13-1114 or more resources for support can be found in our show notes. 

Narrator (18:00): 

Visit our website at www.emergingminds.com.au/families for a wide range of free information and resources to help support child and family mental health. Emerging Minds leads the National Workforce Centre for Child Mental Health. The Centre is funded by the Australian Government Department of Health under the National Support for Child and Youth Mental Health Program.