Transcript for
How to support children who are experiencing distress

Narrator (00:02): 

Welcome to the Emerging Minds Families podcast. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (00:06): 

Hi, I’m Alicia Ranford, and you’re listening to an Emerging Minds Families podcast. I would like to pay respect to the traditional custodians of the land on which this podcast is recorded today, the Kaurna people of the Adelaide Plains. I’d also like to pay respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples, their ancestors and elders past, present, and emerging, from the different First Nations across Australia. 

In this episode, we will be talking about suicidal ideation or children of a young age having thoughts of suicide. If you feel this topic may bring up difficult feelings for you or you have little ears listening, for which it might not be appropriate, perhaps give this week a miss and join us next fortnight, or you can find resources for support in our show notes. 

It’s often considered that children under 12 don’t have thoughts of suicide or what is also referred to as suicidal ideation, but some recent research by Wesley Mission Queensland, has found that many children do have these negative thoughts at a young age, which may be the first sign of suicidal ideation. 

Today we are thrilled to have Emma and Chloe join us. Emma is the General Manager of Mental Health Services at Wesley Mission Queensland, and together with Chloe, they did some research into young people and their experiences of distress at an early age. 

Today they’re going to help us understand what as parents we can look out for, and also what we can do to help support children at this young age, who might be experiencing distressing thoughts. 

Welcome Emma and Chloe, it’s lovely to have you here today in the studio. 

Chloe (Guest) (01:38): 

Hi. 

Emma (Guest) (01:39): 

Hello. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (01:40): 

I wanted to start by learning a bit about you and who makes up your families. Chloe, perhaps we can start with you. 

Chloe (Guest) (01:46): 

Yeah, so I grew up in a family of four, a pretty nuclear family, mum, dad and my sister, and we grew up in a relatively wealthy household. I went to private school for most of my life, and yeah, we had a bit of an interesting family dynamic that over the years unraveled a little bit. It made me who I am, in some of the good ways, and in some of the not so good ways. Yeah, from the outside it was a pretty standard typical family, and a lot of that, I guess dysfunction in some ways, was very under the wraps and a bit not so seen to the eye. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (02:16): 

Thanks, Chloe, and Emma? 

Emma (Guest) (02:18): 

Fairly similar to Chloe actually, which I’ve just realised, so mum and dad and two daughters, I’m the eldest of two. I have my own family now too, so married my husband several years ago, I can’t remember the exact year, and we’ve got two children, a son and a daughter. We have a dog too, actually. Part of our family is our dog, Myla. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (02:40): 

Very important members of our families, aren’t they? Emma, you’ve been with Wesley Mission Queensland for some time now. Can you tell us a bit about your background and how you came to work there? 

Emma (Guest) (02:48): 

Yeah, so I started with Wesley Mission Queensland about seven years ago. Prior to that, I had worked as a social worker in tertiary mental health settings, so predominantly in the adult space in inpatient and community mental health, a little stint in children’s mental health space. Then, after having both of my kids, moved into the non-government sector and started at Wesley Mission Queensland. I have had different roles at WMQ, but have been in the general manager role since March, 2023. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (03:20): 

Fantastic, and Chloe, can you share with us your story of how you came to be a part of Wesley Mission Queensland and this research as well? 

Chloe (Guest) (03:27): 

Yeah, so in Brisbane, Wesley Mission Queensland runs one of our headspaces, and I started about two and a half years ago working as a receptionist at that headspace. Just through that headspace experience, we have what we call the Young Persons Advisory Committee, so young people under the age of 25, just giving their two cents, and some input into how the centre should run and how Youth Mental Health Services can work together. Through that, Emma and one of her colleagues came through and showed this project to us all. I was a part of a focus group with them, and gave our input onto the project, and through that I’ve just snowballed into this end of it as well, sharing my lived experience and how, things I wish my parents would know, and that aspect of it. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (04:15): 

Emma, what prompted you to start doing some research around younger children and the negative thoughts that they might be having? 

Emma (Guest) (04:22): 

We’ve got a variety of services that we operate in South East Queensland. Some of our services, particularly in Brisbane South and the Gold Coast, that we’re working with children under 12. Over the last few years we had noticed an increase in young children turning up to therapy with a therapist, and sharing thoughts that sounded like thoughts of suicide, so saying things like, “I wish I was dead,” or “I hate my life, I wish I wasn’t here.” Young kids, five, six, seven, eight years old, and we as a service and as a collection of practitioners, really struggled with what do we do with this? What’s evidence based and best practise for responding to this presentation? 

Around the same time, the Queensland Alliance for Mental Health released the Wellbeing First Issues paper, which really challenged the community mental health sector to do things differently and to focus on wellbeing. As part of that, they established the Wellbeing Innovation Hub, to have a learning space for organisations to build the capacity to design and deliver services that might be different, that would align with the wellbeing first principles, and so we as WMQ, submitted an expression of interest to the Wellbeing First Innovation Hub. 

To apply you had to have a wicked problem, and a wicked problem is one that you don’t know the answer to, and that is particularly complex. We thought this was a really good opportunity to take this problem of, how do we approach suicide prevention in kids under 12, to the Wellbeing Innovation Hub, and so we did. We were accepted, and then towards the end of 2022, I think around October, our journey started around reviewing the literature, utilising a human-centred design thinking framework to unpack this problem, to really understand the problem, and through understanding the problem work towards what might be our pilot response to this particular problem. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (06:16): 

What did the research show you? 

Emma (Guest) (06:18): 

The research, I guess it happened in a few different phases. Literature reviews that we did, and we utilised student placements to help with literature reviews, there is not much information globally, specifically around high levels of distress and suicide prevention in children under 12. There is some research around under 14 year olds or under 15 year olds, but as we know, there’s a big developmental difference between a 12 year old and a 15 year old. 

We then, moving through a human centred design thinking framework, ran some focus groups. Over a period of a couple of months we ran four focus groups. We ran a focus group with children currently under 12. We had another focus group with parents who currently have children under 12. We did a focus group with the Young Persons Advisory Group at headspace. All the young people there were over 16, but we specifically asked them, “As part of this focus group, we’re really interested in your experiences when you were under 12 and reflecting back to them.” Then, we also had a focus group for parents who currently have children over 16, but again, we asked them to think back to when your kids were under 12. 

Being someone who hasn’t sat in front of clients for a long time, it was a really humbling experience to sit in those focus groups and to be present for the wisdom that particularly young people shared with us, they were so generous with their insights and their wisdom. What we learned from that, is that young children who express high levels of distress are often dismissed by their parents and caregivers. We learnt that young children will only approach their parents and caregivers on a few occasions, and if they’re dismissed on those few occasions, they’re going to start looking for other avenues of support, which alarmingly for the upper end of that zero to 12 age group is online. 

We learnt that children are not often accessing support in the school setting, because of various factors, teachers not always responding well, information getting back to parents really quickly. We learnt that pets were really important as well, so not something that we pursued under this project, but we had both young people and children under 12 share with us, that when their parents might be busy doing whatever is occupying their time, pets can be a really important source of support. We know that, we all love pets, right, because they’re unconditional and they have that positive regard. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (08:46): 

The thing that stands out to me as a parent myself of two children, is sometimes you do as a parent, think to yourself, “You’re a child, you’ve got no cares in the world. Just go outside and run around and kick the footy, that’s going to make you feel better.” 

Emma (Guest) (09:02): 

Yeah, totally. I think the position that we took in our project was, if a child is saying something that sounds like thoughts of suicide, their distress is that high, that that’s what they’re trying to communicate. I think, and again, this is not something we pursued in our research, but I think there is a narrative in society that very young children aren’t cognitively capable of developing a plan and understanding the permanency of that. We took the position of, that they’re trying to express very high levels of distress, and we need to listen and respond to that distress seriously. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (09:38): 

Did they talk to you about the things that they said to their parents, and Chloe, you might be able to speak to this as well? 

Chloe (Guest) (09:44): 

Yeah, I think in the focus group with young people specifically, there was quite a few common stories thrown around, about trying to express that, “I’m not okay,” and I guess things weren’t sitting right or you weren’t sure what was going on, it didn’t feel normal, but a lot of the narrative from parents is, “You’re normal, you’re fine.” That slowly building up internally of going, “This isn’t okay, but I’m being told that it’s normal and that I get on with it, but no one else is experiencing this too.” It over time really built up, and a lot of the young people had similar things to say about that, and it not being taken seriously. Yeah, similar to what Emma said, is that parents just couldn’t really, I guess conceptualise that might be a true feeling for someone that young. Yeah, it might not have been I guess, to the severity of if their teenager was saying it, but the level of distress to get there that young is still a very serious thing. Yeah, that was a comment across our group. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (10:40): 

Chloe, from meeting you in the lead-up to this, that this is a really important topic to you. Can you tell us a bit about why? 

Chloe (Guest) (10:49): 

Yeah, so I’ve had my own extensive experience with mental ill health, and growing up I think, in an environment that although they did their absolute best, they got a lot of that distress missed and minimised, and it did create quite a few challenges for me in my teenage years, becoming an adult. I’m very fortunate that I was able to access help and could get through the other side of that to a degree, but to a point where I’m able to speak about it and help other people through that. It’s that common theme of, when you’re that young no one wants to listen, because you also don’t know how to communicate it. Being someone now, who can communicate it very, very well I think, I feel that, yeah, it needs to be shared, so that others who can’t communicate, it gets across somehow. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (11:36): 

Can I ask, what were the ways that you did try and communicate it to your parents? I’m thinking now of perhaps ways that weren’t even words. 

Chloe (Guest) (11:44): 

Yeah, look, obviously, I think I would have a different perspective as well to my parents, and I always want to preface with that, but I showed a lot of distress very, very young. I was always very high achieving and quite intelligent for a small child, but incredibly distressed. Meltdowns, with not being able to get ready, and not being able to have everything together if I needed to go to school. Very, very sensitive, and would get overwhelmed very easily, and that at times was treated quite delicately when it could be, and then for the rest of it wasn’t. That started to manifest in quite atypical signs of distress for me. A lot of somatic symptoms of, I was always sick, and I always had chronic headaches, chronic backaches, from about seven or eight. Yeah, constant trips to the physio, to the doctor, because there was just something not right. I could never really get down to the core issue of it, and later came to find out it was incredibly anxiety driven and low moods and stress driven. 

Little things, that turning to non-children, in terms of when I was in distress I wouldn’t want to play with kids my own age. I would want to hang out with adults who could communicate different modes of needs to be met. Yeah, just very aligned with me being a lot older than I actually was as well, to mitigate some of that non-understanding from peers, of that distress. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (13:12): 

Did you find that within this research and the findings of the research, they mirrored quite closely your own experiences? 

Chloe (Guest) (13:19): 

Yeah, I think a lot for me is that somatic side of stuff that I think gets overlooked too, of kids feeling sick to go to school, or there’s a point where you can understand anxiety manifests in a sore tummy or feeling nauseous, but more that chronic colds and flus, and always feeling unwell, never being able to get out of bed, lethargic. Yeah, hearing more people have that come up for them as kids as well, from later being able to look back and going, “Yeah, there was some mental health challenges going on at that time.” 

Another way that I did find it atypically turn up, was the self thoughts and self values I had, and they again built up over time of, “I’m not good enough.” “I don’t deserve to be doing this,” or “I don’t deserve that prize that was given.” My big one was, “It’s my fault.” 

That was a little one that did slowly get reinforced over time, because as a child sometimes things are your fault and it’s not a fault, it’s just it happened and that’s what it is. For me over time, that became really, really self-critical and a lot more emotionally weighted than it should have been needed to be. I guess, of yeah, “Things were my fault,” and I then had to scramble to make sure I wasn’t put in a position where something could be my fault. That one I think, again in later years, was a really, really big sign that got missed. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (14:45): 

Thank you for sharing that, Chloe. Before we talk more about those experiences, I thought, this is a good opportunity to introduce the Listen, Just Listen campaign that came out of that research. Could you tell us a bit about that, and from your research, how the Listen, Just Listen campaign came to be. 

Emma (Guest) (15:05): 

After we did all the focus groups, sat in a room several times unpacking all the information that had been so generously shared with us, we realised when we spoke to young people, that the point of intervention here, in whatever we needed to pilot, because at this stage we didn’t know what that would look like, needed to target parents and caregivers, that children under 12 were expressing that something was wrong. The kink in the chain was that, for so many reasons, parents and caregivers missed the cue that something was going on for their child. 

We started working up some options to engage parents. Our experience at WMQ, is that parents can be a really hard group to engage in a early intervention preventative space. That what we heard from the young people again, was that if they needed to engage with headspace or some mental health service, that their parents and caregivers were really engaged, very supportive, happy to be there and turn up, but they’d missed all those earlier cues of, ” Something’s going on here, and I need some support and some help please.” 

We played with, how do we do this? We didn’t think that getting parents in a room was going to work, because we’d tried that for some other initiatives, and it wasn’t overly successful. We know that every parent I think, has a smartphone, so we played with, can we do something online? Because actually the message that we heard from young people, and the message that in this that is important for parents and caregivers, is the need to stop, be present, validate the distress and listen. There’s no secret skill, there’s no secret answer. It isn’t a tricky intervention that only clinicians can do, it is a matter of pausing and listening. 

Given that the message was so simple, we then, after more talking to the focus groups, as part of that human centred design thinking framework, kept going back to our focus groups and checking, are we on the right track? What’s your thoughts about this? We landed on a social media campaign, that was for us, and the restrictions that we had around our project, an effective way of sharing a simple message for parents and caregivers. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (17:22): 

That is, Listen, Just Listen. 

Chloe (Guest) (17:24): 

Yeah, yeah. I think as well, in our lived experience of young people, a big thing too was that it wasn’t an answer that needed to be solved, or necessarily problem-solving or making sure that the parents knew everything and were able to fix everything. That fix was just to hear it out, just to listen and hear it for what it is, and it doesn’t always need to be something that has to be followed up in an emergency, or the next person has to know about it. It was just to pause and listen to it. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (18:02): 

What I’m hearing from you is that there’s the actions that parents can take. We all like to fix things for our children, but the actions that parents can take in these circumstances is perhaps to sit here, acknowledge. 

Emma (Guest) (18:16): 

Stop what you’re doing. If you’re on your phone, put it down. If you’re cooking dinner, stop. If you’re trying to sort out bills, stop. That’s what we heard from young people. Stop what you’re doing, put it away, there’s an opportunity here, in this moment, to engage with your child and to listen, and to be able to provide the space for the child to say, “Things are really hard and I need you to validate that for me right now.” 

Like Chloe said, overwhelmingly from the focus groups we heard, children don’t want parents to problem solve in that moment. Parents, don’t kick into, this is what the next step is, this is where we’re going to go for support, and this is what we’re going to do tomorrow. Working through all those steps, or do I need to talk to the principal because something’s happening at school? No, that’s not what children want in that moment. What they want in that moment is your undivided attention, validation that the distress is real, and to be heard. That’s it. This is not rocket science. That’s what kids told us they want. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (19:17): 

I’m thinking for parents listening today, and them thinking to themselves, “I actually don’t know what to say.” Chloe, what would you have wanted your parents to say in those moments? 

Chloe (Guest) (19:26): 

Yeah, and I think as an adult I can look back on it a little bit differently, but even as a small child, I remember going, “I don’t need you to know. It’s okay not to know, and I know you don’t know, so that’s all right.” 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (19:39): 

Don’t know how to help? 

Chloe (Guest) (19:40): 

Don’t know how to help. You don’t know how to fix it. I think, for a lot of young people growing up, even that acknowledgement of, “I don’t know how to fix it, but let me work through it with you.” It’s almost with the parents sitting in distress with you, because that’s all they can do at that point. Even if it’s not the only thing they can do, quite often it’s the most effective thing they can do. It’s almost that modelling of regulation as well, and regulating emotions with your young person, rather than going, “This is what we need to do to stop it,” and move on and go to the next thing, which can be hard as well, I think. I’m not a parent, but I’ve watched it happen, and it’s not easy to see a young person going through distress. Yeah, young people don’t necessarily want it fixed by having a tangible action outside of that expression of distress. It’s just to be comforted, and most often that’s through just being heard out. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (20:34): 

Isn’t that lovely? It’s that comfort, isn’t it? Sitting there, “I’m sorry that you’re feeling this way. Let’s talk about what you’d like to happen next.” 

Emma (Guest) (20:43): 

I think, as you say that, Chloe, it’s part of human existence that you will feel emotions for the rest of your life, and not every emotion is going to be a pleasant emotion, and I think there’s a real skill, isn’t there in that? Whether it’s co-regulating or not, learning as a child, it’s okay to sit with this emotion, and to let that happen and unfold and for it to move on. It doesn’t have to, because that’s going to happen for the rest of your life, and you don’t need to problem-solve every negative emotion that you experience throughout. 

Chloe (Guest) (21:12): 

For most young people, especially that childhood age. It’s you’re telling a parent because they’re safe and you want to feel safe. I think, by dismissing that distress, you’re still feeling it and that doesn’t feel safe. If a safe person, a parent can sit through it with you, you learn that it is safe to feel that distress, to a point obviously.  In those first instances it would be very beneficial, and for myself it would’ve been really beneficial to be shown and to be taught that it’s safe to have those feelings and that you can get through them, whether it’s by yourself or not, but just someone to show you that you can get through it. 

Emma (Guest) (21:53): 

I think the other thing is, that when parents sit there and do just listen, that creates a pathway for children to keep coming back. Because when they’re dismissed they don’t come back, but if they’re validated and they’re heard, that’s going to build such a lovely relationship between the parent and the child throughout childhood, that regardless of what the emotion is, they know that parent’s safe. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (22:15): 

Yeah, and Chloe, from your experience, what can happen when a child’s distress is minimised by the grown-ups in their life? What can happen long-term? 

Chloe (Guest) (22:23): 

Yeah, so for myself, and I think other young people with similar stories to myself, it very much gets internalised, and it really shaped how I think about myself and how I think about others. That coming into the teenage years or even that 10, 11, 12 age, really did affect my distress, and it taught me, and it was unintentional, but it did teach me that I wasn’t allowed to reach out. 

I was alone in processing this stuff, and that it was almost a narrative in my brain, that I’ve been told I’m normal for so long, but at the same time I’m being told that I’m not doing a good enough job, because I’m not acting in a normal way. That dismissal of, “No, you’re fine, those thoughts are normal, it’s whatever.” I’m like, “Oh, it’s building up and it’s building up,” and it starts bubbling over. Then all of a sudden, “You’re normal but you’re not doing a good enough job,” and that really reinforces that, for me anyway, that state of how I thought about myself. “Things were my fault and I wasn’t good enough,” and once things blew up and I did start acting on it, it then got all this attention that could have been mitigated a couple of years earlier or yeah, earlier on. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (23:34): 

Emma, what are some common signs parents can look out for, that their children may be experiencing this higher level of emotional distress? 

Emma (Guest) (23:43): 

Parents know their kids best, and they know if there’s a change. Chloe shared that it was more those somatic symptoms for her, I think. On our Just Listen website we do have a fact sheet that’s available for parents to go through some of the things to look out for, and it’s going to be different for every child, it’s a fairly long list on the fact sheet. I think the important thing for parents to keep an eye on is, if it’s a change from the child’s normal presentation and if it persists for a week, two weeks, three weeks, then that’s something to be checking in about. Maybe it’s something that is a bit more concerning. 

If it’s something that only happens for one day, check in, have a conversation, but those longer standing changes. It might be shifts in behaviour at school or grades at school. If the child’s in a year where you’re getting grades, it might be things like becoming a bit withdrawn and isolated at home. Maybe coming home from school, going in the bedroom and shutting the door and not wanting to engage with siblings or parents. Maybe it’s changes in sleep, in appetite, not wanting to go to school, changes in mood. If your child is normally bubbly and effervescent and happy and quite bouncy, and they start to lose that bounce and that effervescence, then that might be something to monitor and track. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (25:07): 

Chloe, is there anything you’d like to add that perhaps are some of the ways young people can feel these emotions, that might not be so obvious to parents? 

Chloe (Guest) (25:16): 

Yeah, I think a really standout example for me would be over apologising for things. I remember adults in my life around that time would get so annoyed at it as well, that saying sorry for every tiny little thing that young person’s done. 

Little comments about their expectations or the pressures that they feel as well, whether or not that’s the same perception with the adults in the room. I think quite often there can be a lot of that internal pressure coming from a lot of distress, and sometimes around those years where you are getting graded, that voice can come out about, “I didn’t do good enough,” or “School’s really overwhelming,” and that can lead into not wanting to go to school. 

I guess moods changing, coming home from school and stuff aligned with that, around yeah, that internal, “I’m not good enough,” or “I need to do better,” or “I have to live up to something,” that maybe isn’t explicitly being put on that young person 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (26:14): 

Listening to you both talk about the things for parents to watch out for, I think of my own children and how sometimes listening was enough, but other times it wasn’t. Do you think that’s the key thing to look out for parents to know, whether these changes in emotions are just a normal part of child development or whether they’re a sign of something more? 

Emma (Guest) (26:36): 

Yeah, I think it’s about the duration that they’re hanging around for. If it’s, as say, like Chloe said before, it might’ve started out as one thing, one sign, and then another one was added and another one was added, so the picture becomes I guess a bit bigger and a bit fuller around how the child might be feeling. 

In a lot of cases things resolve themselves and children go on, it might be a little blip on their radar. What we heard through our project was that a lot of times listening and validating would have been enough. Of course there’s always going to be cases where that’s not enough and families need to be looking for other avenues of support for their children. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (27:20): 

Chloe, looking back, what do you wish the adults in your life had known then, knowing what you know now? 

Chloe (Guest) (27:27): 

Yeah, I think hindsight’s 20/20. There’s a lot of things that I’ve thought about now, getting into that adult age. I think a big one for me that stands out is, as much as children really look up to their parents and they do know a lot and they give a lot of answers, I think a lot of children reaching that second half of childhood also know that their parents are human and that they might not know, and that it’s really, really okay for them not to know. I know personally for me that was a big thing, and a lot of people I’ve spoken to about this, of “I wish my parents knew it was okay not to know.” 

Even as an adult now, we’ve had conversations about it, of they want to do absolutely everything in their power to help, or what they think will help, but it’s also quite comforting to know that they don’t know and that’s okay. You’re not expecting an answer from a parent, and having I guess, that human, “I don’t know,” that revelation can also be comforting of, “I’m not the only one that doesn’t know. Oh, okay, that’s actually quite relieving.” 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (28:31): 

What a great message, even for myself. It’s okay not to know the answer, but we can try and work it out together. As the adult I can go and find the answer, if we don’t have it. 

Chloe (Guest) (28:42): 

I think another big one too, and it very much will vary depending on the young person, but quite often if they know what they need, they will also let you know. I think, if they’re at the point where they’re able to voice what they need, listen to it, because they know. I think, sometimes with the language around distress in young children, it can be looked over by, “They don’t know what they need,” or that’s probably not the best terms to use. In terms of what the young person is expressing, they know what they need to get through. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (29:14): 

Do you think, from your own experience, these feelings can impact the other members of the family? I’m thinking of other siblings. 

Chloe (Guest) (29:23): 

Absolutely. In my experience, I think it’s a bit of a two-way stream as well, of a lot of my distress impacted our whole family, but a lot of the family also impacted my distress, and it’s hard to draw a line with that, I think. Especially, as time goes on, it does solidify some roles in the family dynamic, and the longer that doesn’t get addressed, I think it does exacerbate that distress, and then the distresses impact on the family. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (29:53): 

What would you both want parents who have a child showing these emotions to know? 

Emma (Guest) (29:59): 

The things I want people to know is exactly what Chloe just said. Kids know what they need, and we need to be brave enough to trust our children when they’re saying, “This is what I need.” Although listening sounds so simple, don’t underrate that, it is really important. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (30:18): 

Yes, taking those moments to just sit and be and listen. 

Chloe (Guest) (30:23): 

I think, on that as well, even if the child can’t verbalise what they need, it’ll be shown. I think, taking that behavioural change, or I guess the change in demeanour or little personality quirks, listen to that as well as what they’re verbalising, and maybe be curious about what’s behind that behaviour. 

I think another big one, and I look at this now as an adult, I probably didn’t have this outlook of it as someone experiencing distress as a child, but it isn’t anyone’s fault. I think lots of things come into play that can contribute to distress, but I know in my experience it was, they didn’t want to acknowledge it, because they didn’t want to be at fault, which also isn’t the case. I think that responsibility that people can take on about being a part of the distress, is needed to a point, but I think that, just accepted and listen, it doesn’t reflect anything more on a parent if their child is in distress. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (31:27): 

Chloe, what would you say to a young person who feels they aren’t being listened to by the grown-ups in their life? 

Chloe (Guest) (31:33): 

I would say that they’re valid. At the end of the day, they just want someone to listen to, and that their experiences are their experiences, and to trust that they do know what they’re feeling. Even though a parent might be saying, “No, you’re being silly, that’s not your feelings.” You know your feelings, it’s how you feel and they’re real. I think, for young people who don’t feel they are being listened to by their parents specifically, that there are other people they can turn to. I think, realistically it is a bit of judging that trust, and I know that young people can be hesitant, because they don’t know what’s going to be fed back to a parent. Even that more informal side of an older cousin or an aunt or grandma, sometimes people at school, there will sometimes be a teacher or sports coach outside of school care. We heard that quite a bit, of they got to unload, I guess, that emotional debrief, on a lot of those informal structures of support. Yeah, that there is support out there, and you just do have to look around to the other people in your life as well. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (32:46): 

When we say, Listen, Just Listen, what is important to remember about how to listen? 

Emma (Guest) (32:51): 

It’s important to, like we said, put the distractions aside. Meet the child where they’re at. A conversation I’ve had with several of my friends who are parents of young children is, sometimes sitting here like this, like we are now, across the table from one another, making eye contact, doing nothing but talking, that can be really threatening for children and that can be too intense. 

Thinking about, “What’s an activity that my child really likes to do? Is it craft? Is it Lego? Is it play basketball? Is it driving?” Try having the conversation and listening when there’s an activity going on, so sitting side by side, doing some colouring in, having the conversation then. That can be much less full-on for a child to engage in that conversation. I know my two children, for contrast, because I also don’t think this is a one-size-fits-all. My daughter will come home from school and will tell you everything that’s happened, play by play, minute by minute, you know what’s happened in her school day. My son will come home and tell you nothing. School was fine. It was boring. I learnt nothing. Off he goes to do whatever he does. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (34:00): 

I feel like that’s a very common rhetoric in many households across the country. 

Emma (Guest) (34:04): 

Totally, but when my son opens up, is when we’re lying in bed at night, side by side, we’ve finished reading a book. We’re not looking directly at one another. He’s relaxed, because we’ve just read a book, that’s when he will start to share what’s worrying him during the day. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (34:21): 

That’s lovely. 

Emma (Guest) (34:22): 

I think, be persistent with working out the setting that your child communicates in best. It’s not always going to be how we communicate as adults. 

Chloe (Guest) (34:31): 

I absolutely agree with that too. I think from my experience, and as well, talking to other people, even at the same time in childhood, about it, it feels like an interrogation. You’ve got the kitchen light beaming on your head. Mum and dad sat on either side of the table, and it feels threatening. I think that’s almost the opposite of what you want that environment to feel like. If it’s, you’re out on your bike ride on Saturday morning, and you have a quick conversation about it, personally, you would’ve gotten a lot more out of me then, than sitting at the kitchen table or asking direct questions. 

Emma (Guest) (35:11): 

Yeah, driving in the car, yeah. 

Try different settings. 

Chloe (Guest) (35:12): 

I think, importantly as well, a child knows when you’re not giving them your full attention. A lot with phones, but even cooking or doing the housework on a morning, or trying to get someone out the door for whatever activity, and someone, your child is presenting with a bit of distress. They absolutely can feel that you are not giving them attention, or fully hearing them out in that moment. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (35:39): 

What advice would you have for listeners who tried to engage and listen to the children in their care, but still have concerns? 

Chloe (Guest) (35:47): 

Accessing further support isn’t something that’s a failure on not being able to listen. I know for myself, I was always going to have mental health challenges. A lot of that biological framework of how my brain was wired, so I was always going to need some additional support, but listening could have mitigated the distress and not had it escalate so far. With that being said, that parents should look for further help if they do feel they’re out of their depth, because that is also okay, and young people do appreciate that parent knowing their boundaries of how they can help. 

Emma (Guest) (36:23): 

Parents looking for further support, there’s heaps of resources online. I would just be, choose carefully online though, not all online resources are equal. Some of the reputable places for support would be Lifeline, Kids Helpline, Parent Helpline, and if it’s not online resources that the parents looking for, if it’s trying to engage with a professional face-to-face, the GP is a really good place to start. The GP is not going to have all the answers either, and that’s okay, but they are a really great starting point to explore what referral pathways there are and what documentation might be needed to support those referral pathways. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (37:04): 

That’s a really great message. For our listeners today, if they remember nothing else from today, what would you want them to take away? 

Emma (Guest) (37:11): 

We’ve been on the journey of this project and pilot for two years. We’ve spoken to lots of people, we’ve looked at lots of research, and the message that I would leave parents with today is, it is so important to listen, just listen. 

Chloe (Guest) (37:27): 

In that listening as well, there’s not crazy skills that need to be followed up or practised. Just undivided attention in listening to a story or a complaint or an emotion. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (37:40): 

That’s a great message. Thank you so much the both of you for being with us here today. I think there’s so much that our listeners can take away, and really practical things that they can do at home if they feel like their child is in distress, so thank you for joining us. For anyone today who would like to learn more about the Listen, Just Listen campaign, jump onto the Wesley Mission Queensland website, which is wmq.org.au/justlisten, and you can find the fact sheets and more information, as well as a blog post from Chloe, talking about her own experiences. 

Thank you for joining us today and thank you for our listeners. If you would like to keep up to date with our latest conversations, we’d love it if you’d like and subscribe to our Emerging Minds Families podcast channel. You can also find us on Instagram, @emergingmindsau or on Facebook at Emerging Minds Families. 

You have been listening to an Emerging Minds Families podcast. If anything spoken about today has been distressing for you, or you find yourself struggling, please reach out for help. You can call Lifeline on 131114, or we’ll have more resources for support in our show notes. 

Narrator (38:55): 

Visit our website at www.emergingminds.com.au/families for a wide range of free information and resources to help support child and family mental health. Emerging Minds leads the National Workforce Centre for Child Mental Health. 

The National Workforce Centre for Child Mental Health is funded by the Australian Government Department of Health and Aged Care under the National Support for Child and Youth Mental Health Program.