Transcript for
Looking after the mental health and wellbeing of children in out-of-home care
Narrator (VO) (00:02):
Welcome to the Emerging Minds Families podcast.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (00:05):
Hi, I’m Alicia Ranford and you are listening to an Emerging Minds Families podcast. In today’s episode, we will be touching on themes of childhood abuse, neglect, and suicidal ideation. So, if you feel that this may cause you some distress, perhaps give this episode a miss and join us next fortnight. Or you can find some resources for support in our show notes.
(00:26):
There are many and varied reasons why some children are not able to remain living with their birth families and do end up spending time in the care of others. When it’s for extended periods, this can include foster and kinship care arrangements or group and residential homes. Here in Australia, this is referred to as out-of-home care. While out-of-home care is intended to provide a really safe and nurturing environment for children, it can also come with its own set of challenges. Children in care may struggle with feelings of loss and abandonment and some identity issues, and they may also face difficulties in forming stable relationships and have to navigate perhaps multiple moves to multiple homes throughout their childhood. Today I’m talking to Meryl Kilmczak, who has over 20 years’ experience as a foster mum and believes that over and above the physical safety being an out-of-home care can offer, it’s also the mental health and wellbeing of the children in her care that provides the support they need to thrive. Welcome, Meryl. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Meryl Kilmczak (Guest) (01:27):
Thanks, Alicia. Really great to be here.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (01:29):
Meryl, before we talk about your own experiences, could you explain to those listening today what the difference is between foster and kinship carers?
Meryl Kilmczak (Guest) (01:37):
Sure. The biggest difference is that kinship carers are in some way related to the child who has come into care. It could be an aunt, it could be a grandmother, it could be a sister, whereas foster carers have no biological or family connection to the children.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (01:58):
Okay, so you would generally have not met them before?
Meryl Kilmczak (Guest) (02:00):
Generally, yes. Sometimes in kinship carer situations, you haven’t met the child either, so you might be a very long distanced relative and you hear of an extended family member who’s needed a child to be taken care of.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (02:16):
What is your own experience as a foster mum?
Meryl Kilmczak (Guest) (02:19):
I’ve been a foster mum for around 20 years, and I’ve had a variety of kids in my care. I’ve had emergency kids, I’ve had respite kids, so kids who are placed in care already but need to have an extended relationship, an extended family-type connection. Respite kids will come once a month for a weekend. I’ve had short-term kids, long-term kids, and I have one of my sons who when he was 15 years of age, I was granted other person guardianship of him so I was given the guardianship orders to be his legal guardian. That’s kind of the most you can get to as far as permanency with a foster child so I’ve done it all.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (03:05):
You have, that’s an amazing array of experience. I can imagine that the children who come to you would be often perhaps quite confused or frightened. How do you build trust and really establish a positive relationship with children and perhaps especially those who may have experienced trauma or come from a really exceptionally difficult family situation?
Meryl Kilmczak (Guest) (03:28):
I guess, it’s important to realise that for these children, they come into care not by their own choice, and also not often by their own understanding. In the, oh gosh, I’ve lost count of how many kids I’ve cared for, let’s say somewhere between 15 and 20 kids. Of those, I’ve not once met a child who has rocked up on my doorstep, usually with police escort or with a stranger from a government department, and who has felt like they are deserving of being removed from their family. These children, regardless of the chaos and the unsafety of their family life, these children believe that that’s actually what a family looks like and that that’s actually what normal is. When they arrive on my doorstep and I’ve got a clean house and I don’t yell and I don’t scream and I don’t hit them and I don’t kick them out, that’s actually an incredibly unfamiliar and therefore unsafe sensation for these kids. I think that that’s an element that is sometimes misunderstood with children.
(04:44):
These kids will arrive on my doorstep, usually with a little box or a little bag, sometimes a rubbish bag, usually filled with junk, what I would consider junk, but what they consider to be their most precious, valuable belongings, and that’s it. I know nothing about them. I know nothing often of their history, of the experiences of abuse in their family dynamic, how long they’ve been in care. Some kids go from placement to placement, others are coming from biological families. Over time and lots of investigating, I feel like a bit of a special detective sometimes. You’ll try something and then you get some sort of escalated, elevated reaction from a child, so that will then be an indicator, oh, that’s actually maybe potentially an area of abuse and neglect in their life.
(05:36):
As an example, one of the young lads that moved in with me was incredibly resistant to having a shower, not even once a week. Couldn’t do, just could not bear and it became quite a stressful event in our home because he needed obviously good personal hygiene. But it turned out over time and listening and being patient with him and inquiring and always being present for him, turned out that a majority of the abuse that he had experienced had connections to a bathroom so that then creates a whole other layer of trauma when I’m someone new who doesn’t know him, and I’m saying, “Get in the shower. You need to have a shower. It’s time to have a shower. You haven’t had a shower.” We then had to make adjustments. How about a face washer in your bedroom? Or how about we just don’t shower for a couple of days? Or how about trying a bath? Lots and lots of investigating and trying to figure it out.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (06:36):
I like your analogy there that you’re a bit of a detective. You’ve got to investigate and find that middle ground that works for them and you and helps them to move forward.
Meryl Kilmczak (Guest) (06:46):
Absolutely. My standards are not their standards. My benchmarks are not their benchmarks and what’s actually really important for this child at this moment. It can be the smallest of things. Finding the smallest of familiar experiences for them and connecting in with those. Another example is a young person I had who had come to my place with a little bit of a booklet around what they liked and what they disliked and what frightened them and what made them happy. That’s not always the case, but in this situation, I knew that this young person loved baked beans. I hate baked beans. I really do.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (07:26):
I’m imagining you ate a lot of baked beans.
Meryl Kilmczak (Guest) (07:28):
However, we had a lot of baked beans because that was something that was familiar, that was comforting for him, and that gave him a sense of safety and security when everything else was dishevelled in his life.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (07:38):
That leads me into thinking about how you really build a supportive and nurturing environment for children in out-of-home care when your home environment is so different from the one that they’ve come from.
Meryl Kilmczak (Guest) (07:51):
Yeah, it is. Even things like walking into a home, like I said previously, that’s clean and tidy and that doesn’t have days of food laying around. When I have a child who was coming into my care, I would always make sure that there were clean sheets and there was a clean bed and that the bed was made nicely and that the books were placed orderly on the bookcase. But those are things that are actually really unfamiliar again, and really feel unsafe for children. I realised that maybe I needed to just not have the bed quite as well-made and just have the books a little bit dishevelled and it’s okay to have Lego all over the floor. That’s fine. Whatever works for the kids. It’s about spending lots of time, time which often you don’t have. It’s time sitting. It’s time playing, showing children how to play. It’s time inquiring without re-traumatising and re-triggering them. It’s time and patience.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (08:48):
You’ve talked about how each child comes with their own story. How do you work with these kids in your care to identify their unique needs and challenges? I can imagine that must be quite tricky.
Meryl Kilmczak (Guest) (09:02):
It is really tricky. Again, it comes back to time and not just time in a quantity of time, but a time in a quality of time. Often, children will create a story and a picture about their life through a play experience. They might have some Lego out or they might have some Play-Doh, or they might be throwing a hissy fit because something has not gone quite to plan so it’s about looking beyond what it is that you can see in their behaviour and figuring out the pieces of the puzzle that will work for them and that make up their experience. Part of it as well is acknowledging with them that it’s really tough and being honest. Some of these kids will never go home, and I might know that in my gut. Can I say that to children? Not always. But sometimes it is better to let them know that that’s actually not going to be possible for them to go home, but also that it’s nothing that they’ve done that’s stopping that.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (10:03):
And Meryl, the children that arrive on your doorstep, they must come with such a wide range of emotions that they are trying to manage. What strategies have you found that are most effective in helping children in your care manage these big emotions and cope with the difficulties that they’re experiencing?
Meryl Kilmczak (Guest) (10:18):
I think when they first come into care, I would say 99% of the kids have come in a really angry, confused, aggressive, sometimes violent emotional state. That often sits like that for, oh gosh, it can be anywhere from days to weeks because they are feeling unsafe and they’re wondering if they behave badly enough, will they be allowed to go back to mum and dad or who they identify as their mum and dad in their life? It’s about figuring out where they are in the cycle. We go from anger and aggressive and violent, and then we might move to applicating and overcompensating and trying to be the good child because being angry and aggressive didn’t work so maybe I’ll try this tactic of being over compliant.
(11:10):
Then, when that doesn’t work and they realise actually we might be here for a little while, we’ve got to get stuck into the mud together, that’s when the real work of connection and support can actually begin with them, where you’ve formed a relationship and a trust that you’re not going to let them down. You’re not going to hurt them. You haven’t overreacted when they’ve behaved poorly. You’ve recognised and communicated with them about their sense of uncertainty and unsafety in your home, but that you’re willing to actually just stick by them.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (11:44):
I imagine that, like you said, that must go on for months and months as they learn that you are someone and your home is somewhere safe and that they can trust to be themselves.
Meryl Kilmczak (Guest) (11:55):
Yes, absolutely. There was one occasion where I sat in the bottom of a cupboard, oh gosh, with a young person, probably about 10 years of age, and they felt really safe in the bottom of the cupboard amongst their smelly shoes. I got in the cupboard with them, and I was there for, oh gosh, several hours, no words being spoken, but I knew that they just needed to know that they weren’t alone and that there was someone safe next to them. By that point, we’d established that I was a relatively safe person. It wasn’t on their first night, but this was after maybe a couple of months and they were really struggling and I can’t fix it. I can’t fix this situation, but I can be there showing them a seed, showing them an alternative way to be able to work through our emotions and feel through the difficult feelings that we might have.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (12:45):
Meryl, in talking to you before we started recording, you spoke to me about how the majority of the kids that have come into your care actually don’t like being referred to as foster kids. Can you talk to me a little bit about how you describe them and your own children in your family life?
Meryl Kilmczak (Guest) (13:04):
Sure. The formal term for what it is that I have done is foster caring. I understand that I’m not mum to these children, but I also understand that 95% of what I do is actually mumming with them. In my family, we have a combination of what I call heart babies and belly babies, but they’re all my babies. One of them is now 24, he’s taller than me. He is one of my heart babies. Heart baby refers to the fact that he came into my life through foster care and then through the other person guardianship care. I have two heart babies and I have three belly babies, my belly babies being my biological kids.
(13:51):
For me, that was a really important connector between all of the children that I have who’ve walked through my door. They all have a place. They all came in because I chose to have them because I got a phone call saying, “Are you available? Are you able?” And I said, “Yes.” I chose to take on mumming of those children. Now, many of them have left and moved on. Some have come back full circle and found me again and reconnected. But for a time for each of those kids that I’ve had in my care, they’ve been a part of my heart and I’ve been a part of mumming them through their life and it’s a real privilege.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (14:33):
I can imagine that being a parent or caregiver of this type requires a lot of support for you. Because I know as a mum of two kids myself, raising a child does take a village. What does your village look like?
Meryl Kilmczak (Guest) (14:47):
Lots of friends, lots of meaningful, valuable, supportive friends, connecting in with other foster mums, foster parents, foster families, connecting in with peak bodies that support foster and kinship carers. Here in South Australia, we have a particular organisation called Foster and Kinship Carers SA. They are a wealth of resource support, advocacy, et cetera, et cetera, connecting in with mental health services, resourcing yourself with books and more books and more books about trauma and families and how to bring kids who have been traumatised into your family, et cetera, et cetera. Then, the final part of my village is really my children, my belly baby children. It is so critical that they see themselves as a valuable part of the family dynamic and the experience of fostering children because equally as importantly as I demonstrate to children through mumming what it is that a safe family can look like with parents, my biological children are able to show foster children who come through my home, what it looks like to have healthy sibling relationships. Now, that doesn’t mean to have perfect sibling relationships.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (16:09):
I was going to say, I imagine that that comes full cycle around as well.
Meryl Kilmczak (Guest) (16:15):
But what does it mean to fight well? What does it mean to have a disagreement with your siblings? What does it mean to play together? What does it mean to role play? What are hierarchies in families? What does it mean to be a child in a family, not to be a quasi adult or to be placed into adult responsibilities? My biological children to this day, have always said that it has been one of the greatest experiences for our family, that they understand that family is not connected by blood, but family is connected by love and connected by care.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (16:51):
As a mum, self-care is important for all parents and caregivers. What do you do to prioritise your own wellbeing whilst also caring for your heart and belly babies?
Meryl Kilmczak (Guest) (17:03):
Oh, look, I’d like to say I’ve got it nailed, but I don’t. Although, edging on 50, I think that time and experience and a number of burnouts has helped me to recognise when I am about to come to the end of my tether. The biggest thing in self-care is learning to say no and recognising that I can’t actually save 3,000 odd children in care in South Australia and 46 odd thousand children in care across Australia. That’s not my job. I can’t do that.
(17:38):
But what I can do is make sure that I am trying to eat well, that I’m trying to exercise and nurture, whatever that looks like, that I am attentive to my own mental health and wellbeing. Because if I have an empty bucket, I can’t be the very best for anybody else. I love to get out in my garden. I’m not very good at it, but I love to do it. I love to bake. I love to listen to music. I love to listen to podcasts. I notice when I’m starting to deplete in my wellness, that those things that I love start to drop off. It’s about always being attentive, finding time, even if it’s just five minutes. One of the little rules I have in my home is that when mum has her first morning cup of coffee, you are not to speak to her. That is ultimate self-care.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (18:29):
I imagine there’s a lot of parents listening that can relate to that, right?
Meryl Kilmczak (Guest) (18:33):
Correct, yes. Correct. If the house is on fire and your life is in danger, please make sure that you assessed how severe it is before asking for my help.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (18:44):
I love that.
Meryl Kilmczak (Guest) (18:45):
But it’s about also helping our children to realise that mum also needs her own time and that it’s okay. I’ll let my kids know, you know what? I’m actually just needing some quiet, I’m needing some solace. I’ll be in my room. I shut my door. I’ll be there for 15 minutes, 30 minutes. If the house is on fire or if your life is in danger-
Alicia Ranford (Host) (19:05):
Refer to rule one.
Meryl Kilmczak (Guest) (19:05):
Refer to rule one. But that’s really important that they also understand because that’s modelling for them. That it’s not about being stoic and it’s not about pushing through and it’s not about saving the world, but it’s actually about really reflecting and being insightful and responsive to my own wellness and my own mental health and being okay with the waves that happen and doing what I need to do, whatever that might be.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (19:34):
Meryl, during our conversations today, you have shared some of the challenges the young people in your care face and I’m wondering what are the main parenting skills you find yourself drawing on in these situations?
Meryl Kilmczak (Guest) (19:46):
Well, fostering children is not a unique set of skills, but it creates a unique dynamic in the way that you parent and in the way that you care for children. Parenting is parenting. Children are children. There are some fundamentals that just don’t change, regardless of your experience, but it’s within the context of the experience of a foster child that those nuances and those unique presentations and those unique skills to really weave and do that super investigative detective work happens.
(20:23):
Regardless of if I’m a mum of my belly babies and I’m supporting them through doing their homework, or if it’s a foster child and I’m supporting them through doing their homework, the principles are the same. You’d need to get your homework done. You need to sit at the dining room table to do it. You need to have it presented in a manner that’s appropriate. But for a foster child, maybe they’re actually not terribly interested in their homework because they’ve spent six years of their life trying to keep themselves alive, so maybe we modify the way that we do it. Maybe we become creative. Maybe doing their homework at the dining room table is really stressful. Maybe they want to sit on the lounge to do it or sit in bed because that’s where they feel safe. The principles are the same, but the actual outworking’s of it need to be a bit more nuanced for kids who are in care.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (21:09):
Meryl, we’ve talked about some of the things that keep the children in your care safe. What are some of the things that you really feel are important when looking after the mental health and wellbeing of kids that come into your care?
Meryl Kilmczak (Guest) (21:21):
I think the most critical thing is to recognise that children who come into care come loaded with complex trauma loaded. As a foster mum, if I’m ever to think that I have all the bells and whistles and skills and professional and academic knowledge to be able to support them and nurture them on my own, I’m foolish. I really am. We have to understand that children in care need particularly extensive, immediate and meaningful therapeutic supports, whether that’s through public health, whether that’s through private psychology, whether that’s through psychiatry, whether that’s through social and emotional wellbeing programmes at your children’s school. However it might look, we have to pay attention to the mental wellness of children in care, and we need to do that deliberately.
(22:21):
As an example, I had a young person in my care who at nine years of age, experienced extreme mental health crises, and Year 3 and highly suicidal. I really struggled to try and keep them safe. I reached out for support and I was told, “Well, you might just need to wait because the public system, as we know is backlogged, and it’s probably going to be about a four-month wait before they can have mental health intervention.” I’m not waiting four months. I’ve got a nine-Year-old. I need to keep them safe and that’s my primary responsibility, so step it up, advocate, ring psychologists. Don’t react, but act and respond promptly to their mental health because it is incredibly complex.
(23:17):
I’m not a psychologist, but I’m a really good mum, and I have spent time tuning in, being patient, caring, building trust, building relationship, and I have to utilise that in a positive way by drawing on professional resources and then making sure that they’re meaningful. If we don’t address the mental health of young people in care, we end up with older people, adults out of care, struggling, continually struggling, justice system, mental health services, drug and alcohol abuse, homelessness. That’s where they’re going to end up if we don’t actually pay attention to their mental health and wellness in all of the ways that matter.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (24:02):
Meryl, it’s been absolutely a privilege to hear you talk about your heart and belly babies today. Thank you for spending time with us. I wonder, is there one thing you’d want people to think about who are listening today who perhaps don’t know much about foster children and their experiences?
Meryl Kilmczak (Guest) (24:19):
I think that the one takeaway is to remember that every child who comes into the world has the potential to be a magnificent stained glass window picture. If you go to the cathedrals and you look up and there is colour, and there is beauty, and there is magic. That’s what every child from the moment they’re born has the potential to be. Some children end up in family situations where it’s then my responsibility for a period of time to scoop them up and scoop the shattered glass window, bits and pieces up and help them to create their own stained glass window picture. With my belly babies, it’s a little bit easier because I’m not trying to manage fragments. But if we remember at the end of the day that all children are deserving of the opportunity for love and the opportunity to be shown a better way and the opportunity to feel safe and the opportunity to be heard, that’s the most critical and I always come back to that.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (25:24):
Oh, what a wonderful note to finish on. Thank you, Meryl.
Meryl Kilmczak (Guest) (25:27):
Thank you.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (25:28):
It’s been an absolute pleasure.
Meryl Kilmczak (Guest) (25:29):
Thank you. It’s been lovely to be here and I didn’t cry, which is-
Alicia Ranford (Host) (25:35):
The passion and commitment that you talk about all of your children is a really beautiful thing to hear.
Meryl Kilmczak (Guest) (25:41):
Thank you.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (25:42):
So, thank you.
Meryl Kilmczak (Guest) (25:42):
Yeah, thank you. Thanks, Alicia.
Narrator (VO) (25:45):
Visit our website at www.emergingminds.com.au/families for a wide range of free information and resources to help support child and family mental health. Emerging Minds leads the National Workforce Centre for Child Mental Health. The centre is funded by the Australian Government Department of Health under the National Support for Child and Youth Mental Health Program.