Transcript for
Supporting gender and sexual diversity in children and young people

Narrator (00:02): 

Welcome to the Emerging Minds Families Podcast. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (00:06): 

Hi, I’m Nadia Rossi and you’re listening to an Emerging Minds Families Podcast. We would like to pay respect to the Traditional Custodians of the land on which this podcast is recorded, the Kaurna people of the Adelaide Plains. We also pay respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples, their Ancestors and Elders past, present and emerging from the different First Nations across Australia. 

(00:33): 

Many parents struggle to navigate sexual and gender diversity with their children and young people, feeling unsure of how to best support their families in what can seem like a changing landscape. 

(00:44): 

Today we are speaking with Jason , who is generously sharing his experience of supporting his own children in their journey. Welcome Jason , thank you for speaking with us again. 

Jason Tyndale  (Guest) (00:53): 

You’re welcome. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (00:54): 

Jason , in our last episode, we heard of your own journey as a transgender parent. Could you explain to our listeners what we mean when we talk about gender and sexual diversity? 

Jason Tyndale  (Guest) (01:04): 

Yeah, sure. So gender and sexuality, two completely different things. So gender is a socially constructed role. So for example, man and a woman. But it can also be gender fluid, so it could be transgender or gender nonconforming. So gender is like a spectrum. So you can go from one end to the other there and there’s a whole pile of different things in between. Sexuality on the other hand is about who someone is attracted to. And again, that can be, there’s a spectrum of that. Basically, you might have people who are straight, gay, bisexual, pansexual, or a variety of other orientations. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (01:40): 

Thank you for sharing with us that, Jason . I know that it is, like I mentioned, a changing landscape and we can feel like we want to make sure we name and respect everyone when we talk about sexual diversity and gender. So thank you for sharing that with our listeners. Jason , what has been your family’s experience as your children navigated diversity? 

Jason Tyndale  (Guest) (02:00): 

So I came out to my kids as transgender, so I understand that and that was all done in age-appropriate manner. My boys identify as straight males. My daughter identifies as a lesbian, and she came out to us at a very young age. She knew straight off the bat, she just came out to us one day and just said, “Mum, Dad, I’m a lesbian.” We were like, “Okay, cool, we’re happy with that.” We had a lot of family members say, “Oh, it’s a phase, she’ll grow out of it.” Well, she’s 18 and she hasn’t grown out of it yet, so we don’t think that’s going to change. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (02:34): 

And how did you find that as parents navigating that kind of response and how you supported her in that? 

Jason Tyndale  (Guest) (02:42): 

Yeah. So we were really cool about it. We weren’t in a position to judge, no one is. But we wanted to support her and say, “Okay. Well, if that’s how you feel, then we will honour that.” We didn’t try to talk her out of it or make her feel bad. It was more about supporting her and just letting her know that, “Okay, we are really happy that you came out and told us that. You had the presence of mind to want to let us know.” And I think that when you have an open relationship with your children, that you can let them talk to you about anything that it means let them talk about anything. And if that’s something that they want to tell you, you need to be prepared for that. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (03:22): 

And how did you support her with those not-so-helpful family responses? 

Jason Tyndale  (Guest) (03:28): 

We basically shut them down very quickly. Basically, we just say, “It’s not a phase. She knows herself, she knows who she is, she knows what she wants in life.” So you can’t let people sort of railroad you and make things out to be what they’re not. You’ve got to support your child when they come out. And I think it’s really important that especially with family members, they want to have an opinion. Which is fine, they can have an opinion, but they shouldn’t be trying to force that opinion onto the person that’s coming out. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (04:01): 

It sounds like you really supported her and had her back. And how wonderful for her to know that you were there for her and standing up for her. Was there any navigating through friends or anything like that with her? 

Jason Tyndale  (Guest) (04:15): 

She has no actual friend network, which is a little bit sad, but she’s getting there. But she was homeschooled and she has ASD and anxiety, so she finds it difficult to make friends. But if she had, we would’ve still supported her through that. And into the future, we’ll support her as well, because it’s important to make sure that your children feel loved and cared for and safe. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (04:40): 

Absolutely. And what do you think she found most helpful in that time? 

Jason Tyndale  (Guest) (04:45): 

I think just knowing that she was okay, that she was going to be accepted for who she is. And I think that’s really important. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (04:52): 

Jason , you have spoken previously and what we just spoke about then about you having a beautifully open family and letting your children know from very early on that they could talk to you about anything. Do you think that this helped your daughter when she was coming out? 

Jason Tyndale  (Guest) (05:08): 

Yeah, I think so. I think letting them know that they can come to you with these situations is really instrumental in growing that connectedness with your family and being able to just have that space for them to come out and just say how they’re feeling or what they’re feeling. I think she felt very supported and felt safe. And I think safety is the key here because if your child doesn’t feel safe with you, who are they going to feel safe with? 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (05:37): 

I was going to ask you how important you feel safe spaces are, especially, people either questioning their sexuality or trying to find the right time to come out. How important are safe spaces? 

Jason Tyndale  (Guest) (05:48): 

Yeah, they’re so important. You’ve got to be able to come out in a safe environment and hopefully the people that you’re coming out to will support you. And I think a lot of… Well, there’s a lot of statistics out there that talk about, especially, transgender children try to come out to their parents, they get kicked out of home, they end up on the streets, drug addictions, not even making it to their next birthday, that sort of thing, because they’ve just been thrown away like a piece of rubbish, because their parents are just like, “Well, no, that’s not right.” So you need to have those safe spaces for your children because you are their family, they love you, you’ve raised them, and you’re expected to keep that love and that respect in that situation, that connectedness with your family is really important. And I think not supporting your child when they need you the most, you’re letting them down, you’re letting yourself down as well. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (06:46): 

You mentioned earlier that your daughter knew at a very young age and she seemed like she felt very comfortable talking to you and your partner. I’m wondering if you had any advice to parents who may think that their child is exploring or questioning their sexuality or their gender and they’re in that period of waiting or expecting a conversation to maybe happen. What advice do you have for parents in that time? 

Jason Tyndale  (Guest) (07:15): 

Look, just be gentle with your kids, they are going through hell. They absolutely are because they’re terrified, they’re scared, they don’t know what the reaction’s going to be. And so you’ve got to be there for them. As much as it may upset you as a parent to hear that coming from your child or to experience that situation, you’ve got to be there for them. They are so scared and they just want to be able to come out in the safe space and say, “Mum, Dad, I need to talk to you about this and it’s really important to me.” And the support that you give them is going to make or break them. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (07:52): 

Do you have any advice for in that moment of their conversation where a child does come out and how a parent can respond or maybe if they’re finding the words hard in that moment? 

Jason Tyndale  (Guest) (08:06): 

Keep it cool just even if it’s shocking to you or upsetting to you. Yeah, it’s going to be a shock because as a parent, you’re probably not expecting it, so it’s going to be a shock to you. But I think just don’t discuss it in front of your children when you want to discuss it with your partner or your significant other and just say, look, when the kid’s coming out to you, you need to be present, you need to be focused and say, “Okay.” And you need to listen and understand. And if it hurts you, it’s going to hurt you, but you can’t show that to your kids. It’s really hard because you don’t want to make them scared to come to about anything else as well. Do you know what I mean? If they’re not feeling safe coming out to you about something like that, then if they’re ever in any sort of trouble, they’re going to think twice about coming to you because you’ve exploded on them the first time. So yeah, just be really gentle with them and try to be as understanding as you can. Put yourself in their shoes. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (09:08): 

I feel it is a lot more accepting now to have these conversations and for parents to be more open and understanding. But I think it’s really great for you to even share the acknowledging that the child, whether their parents are accepting or not, and have an open relationship and talking or not, it’s still something that the child wants to share and announce to the parents, and to be gentle with the child because it has taken them a lot of strength and courage to have that conversation. Whether the parent’s like, “That’s great. We don’t care.” Or whether it’s a bigger conversation or parents can just take that on by supporting their child’s wellbeing by just being there for them and listening to them. 

Jason Tyndale  (Guest) (09:49): 

Yeah, absolutely. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (09:50): 

I wanted to talk to you about pronouns. When a child chooses to sit down and discuss with their parents, “These are my pronouns.” And they may not be pronouns that the parent expected. What are some ways you feel parents could respond in supportive ways? Even some questions the parents may want to ask their child to show that they’re engaged and supportive? 

Jason Tyndale  (Guest) (10:14): 

Yeah. Okay. So pronouns is a hard one because like you said, the child may come out and use pronouns and you’re like, “What?” So yeah, it’s just a matter of saying to your child, “Okay, I might get this wrong every now and again, but I’m trying.” And just keep practising. So I know someone who is a they-them, has came out to me not long ago and just said, “Oh, my pronouns are they-them.” And I was like, “Thank you for sharing that with me so I can honour that and not just refer to you as a different pronoun.” And they were really happy with that, and they’re a young person. And I think for parents, just keep practising. It is hard, and nowadays, if you misgender them, they can get upset. 

(11:00): 

The best way to deal with that, I think, is to say, “Oh, okay. Well, I’ll refer to you as, their-“ 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (11:07): 

Chosen pronoun. 

Jason Tyndale  (Guest) (11:08): 

… chosen pronoun, from then on. “And please forgive me if I slip up, I’m still learning.” 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (11:14): 

Yeah. 

Jason Tyndale  (Guest) (11:14): 

And just to try to be as focused as you can be with that. But I think once you do it a few times, it gets easier. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (11:22): 

That’s really important to keep in mind what you said is that it’s okay to make a mistake as long as you acknowledge that you’ve misgendered or you’ve said the incorrect pronoun and that you do better next time. It’s that fear of getting it wrong and maybe not wanting to upset someone that people hold onto instead of just having those open conversations with their children and with their family and not being afraid to ask questions. I find people are more than happy to answer a question if it’s coming from a good place. 

Jason Tyndale  (Guest) (11:50): 

A respectful place. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (11:51): 

Yeah. 

Jason Tyndale  (Guest) (11:51): 

Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s really a key thing is having the conversations and just talking about it. Yelling gets you nowhere, it just upsets everyone. No one benefits, everyone loses. So it’s better to just sit down and say, “Hey, well, let’s have a cuppa and have a chat.” I think that’s the best way you can deal with these sort of things. And I think the more you can be accepting, the easier it is for everyone, and it makes life so much simpler. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (12:17): 

Also, there’s probably resources that parents can look to for education as well away from their children. That is also a way of supporting your child’s mental health and wellbeing is by researching. 

Jason Tyndale  (Guest) (12:30): 

Absolutely. There are a lot of websites out there that you can get information off. I think there’s one called Minus18. There are a lot of organisations that can help you navigate that space. So if you’re feeling confused, so if you don’t know where to go, what to do, get in contact with them and just say, “Look, I’m a parent who’s got a child who’s just come out to me and I don’t know what to do. I don’t know how to deal with this.” Just talk to someone in that area that has an understanding of it because you can get overwhelmed with all the information. So if you can find someone to talk to who’s got an understanding of that and can help you navigate that path, that’s all better for you. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (13:12): 

I’m really taking away from this conversation, Jason  that it is always about education and not being afraid to educate yourself and ask questions. And then just being there to support your children in whichever decisions that they’re making, letting them know they can come to you with questions. I’m wondering if there is anything else you would want to leave our listeners with today from this conversation? 

Jason Tyndale  (Guest) (13:34): 

Education and communication is key. I think it’s really important that you allow yourself the time to process what’s going on, but don’t do it in front of your kids. If you need to go out, get in the car and drive down the beach and scream at the ocean, do it because that will let a lot of tension out. And then you can just come back and go, “Okay, I’m cool. Let’s sit down and have a conversation.” And just be there for your kids because you are there for your kids, that’s the important thing. They need your support. 

Nadia Rossi (Host) (14:05): 

Perfect. Thank you so much, Jason . 

Jason Tyndale  (Guest) (14:07): 

No worries. 

Narrator (14:10): 

Visit our website www.emergingminds.com.au/families for a wide range of free information and resources to help support child and family mental health. Emerging Minds leads the National Workforce Centre for Child Mental Health. The National Workforce Centre for Child Mental Health is funded by the Australian Government Department of Health and Aged Care under the National Support for Child and Youth Mental Health Program.