Transcript for
Supporting your child’s emotions
Narrator (00:02):
Welcome to the Emerging Minds Families Podcast.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (00:05):
Hi, I’m Alicia Ranford and you are listening to an Emerging Minds Families podcast. As parents and caregivers, we know that children can experience a really wide range of big feelings throughout their daily lives. It can be a rollercoaster for them and you as you both navigate the tears and tantrums coupled with the joy and laughter. There are so many emotions as children grow and experience all the new things that go on around them, and it can be difficult to know how to help children manage these feelings.
(00:35):
Today we are talking to Ben Rogers. He’s a dad and occupational therapist who throughout his career has spent much time looking at emotions and really helping children and parents to manage them in a healthy way. Welcome, Ben. It’s great to have you here with us today.
Ben Rogers (Guest) (00:49):
Thanks for having me.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (00:50):
Ben, why is it important we consider our children’s emotions?
Ben Rogers (Guest) (00:55):
Emotions really sit as a fundamental process in how we navigate the world around us, and many of you listening today may have heard the term emotional regulation, which is our ability to manage our emotional experiences, identify with them, and then respond in ways that are appropriate to the needs of our environment, but we’re constantly taking information in. I’m sitting here talking to you, talking through a podcast and microphones in front of me, and there’s so much happening in my environment, but also internally, my heart rate’s starting to go up as a subtle feeling of anxiousness. Am I going to say the right thing? And this is all happening under the surface.
(01:32):
And when we think about the needs of our environment, if we’re in danger, we feel certain emotions. That might be fear, which help us to move away from that experience. If we feel safe and engaged, we may feel emotions like happiness and relaxation that encourage us to move towards an experience. So all of these responses are important as we evaluate and assess our surroundings, and I think we notice emotions the most when they aren’t quite aligned to what we might expect in a situation and when someone has difficulty regulating those emotions.
(02:07):
And I think about when I got home from work the other night, and I could hear my three-year-old kicking and screaming on the floor in the lounge room, and when I went to investigate what was happening, he was having a humongous meltdown because he wanted chicken drumsticks for dinner and we were having tuna rice that night. And I think this is a really good example of at its core is emotions that help drive our behaviours. But really importantly for children, they help to communicate what their needs and desires are. And it is a complex process, but yeah, looking forward to discussing with you today.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (02:39):
Yes, and I think as a parent myself, it’s one of the things you remember most about your children when they were young, is the times when they couldn’t manage those emotions and things went quite pear shaped. So do you think it’s important that as parents, we think about our children’s emotions right from an early age?
Ben Rogers (Guest) (02:57):
Yeah, absolutely. If we think about emotions at their core, communicating certain needs, and even in utero, an infant is communicating with their mum about what the external environment is like. And as they move into the world around them, they’re feeling certain things that allow them to communicate, whether that’s through crying, and we try and tune into those needs. I think as a dad, there were three things that I was told that I need to try and tune into at the start. Is it food? Are they hungry? Do the need nappy change? Do they need sleep?
(03:29):
But actually, there’s a lot of complexity that sits in terms of attuning to those needs. So the tennis match begins where the infant or child will hit some cues over to you and you try and read those cues and hit it back. And as that happens over time, an attachment, a connection is strengthened. And really, that lays a foundation for how that person, that child grows into navigating the world around them. And on top of that tennis match that we’re constantly playing is kids are really tuning into how we are feeling in each and every moment. And this idea of co-regulation is really fundamental, particularly early in life and when our kids are really relying us to have their needs met, but as they grow, co-regulation becomes this foundation in help helping them to make sense of the world around them through us, as well as that naturally they’re sponges and feel what we are feeling in each and every moment.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (04:24):
And so is that what you mean by co-regulation, that children feed off the emotions of their parents and vice versa?
Ben Rogers (Guest) (04:31):
Yeah, there’s this flow effect, isn’t there? Where your facial expressions, your tone of voice or your body posture, the words that you’re using, even your heart rate and how that feels for an infant that’s lying on its parents’ chest. And all of that is communicating to that infant about what the world around them is like. And when we’re aware of that as adults, we can’t stop the experiences we are feeling but when we’re aware of that process of this flow of energy between us and our kids, it allows us to build awareness of how we can help them understand their environment around them.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (05:09):
I think that’s a really great point, and I’d love to touch more on that shortly, but I wanted to start with asking fundamentally, why do you think children find it difficult to regulate their emotions?
Ben Rogers (Guest) (05:22):
Yeah, children take time to develop the skills and internal resources to regulate and manage their emotions. I feel like as an adult, I’m still learning how to manage my own emotions and you step into the shoes of a child whose brain is still developing, particularly their language. If we’re thinking about when that receptive language starts and then we get more ability to express ourselves, that comes through the toddler years, and even being able to problem solve comes and supports how we manage and explore our own emotions.
(05:53):
So you add on top of that, the physiology of a child is still developing how the body’s talking to itself and our own internal thresholds for certain things, and even exposure to experiences. I think of my one-year-old, I was watching her eat kiwi fruit the other day, and I could see in her facial expression when she put this tart kiwi fruit into her mouth, the facial expression of disgust really came out through her, and that felt like the first time I’d seen that experience. So there’s so much that’s happening for kids as they grow and develop.
(06:26):
And coming back to the idea of co-regulation, if we are there along the journey to support them through that, to name that experience, to be with them and let them ride the waves. We often think of emotions, particularly at the pointy ends as being stuff we need to avoid. And in fact, they’re really good opportunities to help build the knowledge and internal sense through the body of what it feels like.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (06:46):
So I heard you mention the body in relation to emotions. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?
Ben Rogers (Guest) (06:53):
Yeah. So our emotional experiences are felt. We have feelings and those feelings are carried within the body and it’s something that we don’t always look at as parents, but it’s a really important place to draw kids’ attention to because they have sometimes these really wonderful ways of describing what they’re feeling in their body. It might be a tight chest, butterflies in the belly, and so emotions in the body are really intertwined. So although it’s really important to give language around that emotion, if we can help kids to think about their body, it builds a broader level of literacy around this area. Literacy meaning language and words and understandings. On top of that is the way that we think. So our thoughts, our emotions, and also our body.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (07:34):
I think that’s a really interesting way to look at it, that we experience emotions also through our body. It’s not only a sense of feeling.
Ben Rogers (Guest) (07:42):
That’s right, and it’s a good starting place for adults as well. Often if you can name a feeling, name an experience, take time to explore where it’s in the body. And for a parent it’s really hard. And I know for me, after a big day at work and I get home and my child’s having a meltdown about what we’re having for dinner, I can have certain reactions that I could be aware of. But what emotional regulation can help you do is if you are aware that you’re feeling it in the body, you can just quickly drop in and say, “I’m noticing tightness in my chest right now.” And that provides a bit of space. It gives you that moment in time to sit with that and then respond in ways that you think are more aligned to your child’s needs in that moment.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (08:23):
Yeah. It’s that lovely moment of reflection in yourself, which can probably help with your ability to manage what your child’s experiencing as well.
Ben Rogers (Guest) (08:31):
And it doesn’t go well all the time, obviously. It’s something that a lot of parents, I think, including me, are aware of in how kids can make us feel certain ways and our own thresholds for managing those things. And yeah, I think it’s something that we have to have a level of care and compassion for ourselves as we navigate these little nervous systems that grow and develop.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (08:52):
And so what do you think are the benefits in teaching children at a young age how to manage their emotions?
Ben Rogers (Guest) (08:58):
When we think about emotions at their core, we are built to respond, as I said earlier around when things are unpleasant, we are moving away from them. And when they’re pleasant, we might be drawn more towards them. But as we navigate the world around us, we can’t control what life’s going to be throwing at us at different points. Having core skills, self-regulation around navigating those experiences is fundamental. And particularly when thinking about the extreme ends of what that might mean in terms of when we are feeling those really unpleasant experiences, finding ways of being able to sit and be with them or knowing what strategies and tools to draw on is really important.
(09:35):
As a parent thinking of it that you’re building a toolkit that a child can draw on at different points when they’re needing it around their emotions and their regulation. Sometimes that might be connecting with you and exploring something difficulty that they’re going through at the moment. Sometimes that might be something that they can draw on themselves that allows them to self-regulate. And other times there might be other things that are really unique to that child and their individual differences. And that’s probably a really key point, is that kids are really good at talking in their behaviours about what they’re needing at different points in time. And so adults, as best we can, if we can tune into those, it can really help us to support and walk alongside those kids through their emotional regulation journey.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (10:17):
And I really like that thought that you are building a toolkit for your children to utilise in the future as they grow and become young people and then into early adulthood to manage situations that they come across in a more emotionally stable way.
Ben Rogers (Guest) (10:33):
Absolutely, and I think fundamental to all of this is the relationship that we build with our kids and not underestimating the importance of that proactive connection that we do naturally with our kids. So one-to-one time, quality time. One of the things that I’m really conscious of if I’ve come home from a busy day at work is I might be caught in my head and thinking about different things and my kids are so grounding for me, and just getting on the floor and following their lead in play is really a great opportunity to explore different emotions in their play, different things that might come up for them. So just by getting on the floor and building that connection is a really practical way in which you can start to build that toolkit together.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (11:15):
Ben, what do you think are some of the main things that impact a child’s ability to regulate their emotions?
Ben Rogers (Guest) (11:22):
Yeah, there’s some underlying things that impact how a child might feel, and I think about my kids. Sometimes they wake up in the morning and I think, “Oh, we’re going to have a tricky day today.” And if you take a step back for a moment and think about some things that impact the body and how we’re feeling, our physiology, thinking about sleep being a really fundamental part of how we feel in terms of our regulation, how we are managing and navigating our emotional experiences through the day. Yeah, my family definitely have moments of being hangry, where food and nutrition really sit underneath how we’re feeling as well.
(11:57):
For some kids, they have difficulty processing sensory information as well. But really, a key thing to make mention of is what’s happening in the family context at this point in time? Is there any family stress that’s sitting underneath from the child’s experiences and emotions? Another thing to make mention of is when things are new and unpredictable, naturally the body and nervous system become more heightened. I remember we moved house recently and I spent the first week being hypervigilant, not sleeping well because it was a new environment and that made me feel that way, and my kids were like that for a lot longer.
(12:29):
So it’s just having awareness of things in the body, things around our relationships and the family context, as well as thinking about the environment and how that might make a child be feeling at any point in time. And when thinking about feelings, we often see behaviours and it’s quite easy to get caught up in what you see in that moment. I think the challenging thing that I find, and I know a lot of other parents do is taking a step back in those moments and holding that broader lens about what might be impacting that child in that moment, but also what might they be communicating to me in that moment. And that lens can provide a level of compassion in how you think about supporting them in those moments.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (13:08):
And it’s lovely to think that actually, it’s been curious about why your child might be feeling this way. And I guess that lends me into asking what is the parent’s role in supporting this emotional regulation in their children?
Ben Rogers (Guest) (13:21):
A really important thing that I’ve made mention to is this idea of co-regulation and just being aware of your own emotions and what might be flowing through you to your kids and thinking about those emotions that you meet in the moment and validating those experiences as best as you can and helping your kids to know that it’s okay to be feeling that at each and every moment that they’re feeling it. I know this is challenging at different points in time. I was reading recently the Latin definition of discipline is to teach. And when you think about teaching and emotions, really those heightened emotions are really important moments in time.
(14:00):
Now, if we think about what’s going on for that child in their brain, in those moments, particularly for my toddler, their ability to access language in those moments is really challenging. And so when we’re in those really heightened emotions as best we can, if we can provide empathy, sit with that child, validate their experiences, that can be really helpful. But when they’re feeling calm, is there ways in which we can help them to understand what they’ve just experienced and make meaning of that experience as well? And this does change through the ages as well. As the child gets older, you can have more complex conversations around these things.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (14:34):
And I think about how much kids look at their parents or caregivers for being a lead in how to manage all sorts of different situations. How can parents model good emotional regulation for their children to really learn from during their own stressful times?
Ben Rogers (Guest) (14:52):
Yeah. One thing that I’ve learned as being a dad is that your kids are sponges for your own behaviour. And I’ve just seen myself in my kids and how they’ve talked to me or responded in a cheeky way, and I think that’s a really important thing for us to be aware of. And I think as parents, were aware that, “God, they’re absolute sponges for what we are doing at the moment.” And that becomes really important when we are feeling stressed ourselves. What’s our tone of voice, our facial expressions? How are they making meaning of what’s going on for us?
(15:18):
As a parent, it’s natural for us to react to our kids. I think it’s just really validating that that’s what happens at different points in time, but finding times of when those ruptures do happen. You find yourself frustrated or angry at your kids. Once you’re feeling calm yourself, how can you create some space to repair that and talk through what happened for you in that moment and ask them about how they’re feeling. And then just having some open communication and meaning making together around what’s happened, and that might be something that’s small, there might be something that’s big as well, and that kind of framework can be really helpful for families.
(15:52):
And thinking about your family rituals. As I talked about earlier, relationships are really fundamental to this and having that positive connection together. I was finding that after a stressful day, I’d come home and I’d notice the tension in my chest. I would notice how my kids were reading into that a little bit and we’ve decided to do a dance party if any of us have had a tricky day. My three-year-old had a tricky day at childcare the other day, so we had a dance party in the lounge room where we chose all our different music. Cat Boy was played on repeat, basically.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (16:22):
Oh, I love that.
Ben Rogers (Guest) (16:22):
So there’s different ways that you can tune in for your own family rituals that can help you to support your kids. The final thing to make mention of is listening to your kids and listening with what you see and what you hear, observing what they’re trying to communicate to you through how they’re behaving or even what they’re saying.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (16:41):
And I think I’ve never met a parent who hasn’t really struggled at some time or another to help their child manage a really emotional outburst or three. And so what are some really practical things parents can do to help a child who is struggling to manage those really big feelings, say of frustration and anger that generally happen when you’re in the aisle of a supermarket?
Ben Rogers (Guest) (17:03):
Oh, the supermarket, the dreaded supermarket. You can hear families across the country shivering when you hear that and-
Alicia Ranford (Host) (17:12):
Oh, I would be one of them. Yes.
Ben Rogers (Guest) (17:13):
Yeah. Well, there’s so much to this. I think probably the first thing is about when the early stages of an emotion that a child might be feeling and how proactively we can support a child to navigate those. So sometimes just by naming that, “I can see you’re looking really frustrated,” or, “Oh, I know that you’re really wanting to go down the chip aisle today.” And then just in those early stages, you might just sit with that with them and just by naming it, or it might open a dialogue where you talk about it with your child and do some problem solving.
(17:43):
So remember in those early stages, the body’s calm, the brain’s connected to more language of… Picture my three-year-old obviously in this context. And then we move into more the heightened end of what a child might be experiencing. And in those moments, using empathy and validating what they’re feeling is really important and sitting with them during it, just writing that out together can be really helpful, but it’s not always that easy. And setting clear rules and boundaries are really important as well in proactively supporting emotions. It’s this predictability and natural consequences that can provide a really important scaffolding for children when navigating things like the supermarket.
(18:25):
And this can be a challenge at times. I know definitely it is for me, where you set those boundaries and follow those through. So for instance, what a child can and can’t have from the supermarket shelf. And you’re setting these expectations, but what you’re often met with is you’re met with your child’s own emotions as part of this. And this can be anything from frustration, anger, disappointment, to a full-blown body meltdown on the floor. And this can be really triggering for us as parents in a public place. And again, as best you can during those times, try and ride the wave of emotions with your child.
(19:05):
And you can still name the boundary, but also acknowledge the natural disappointment or frustration they’re experiencing. For instance, “We won’t be taking any chips home with us today, and I know you’re frustrated. Let’s see what else we can choose together from our shopping list.” Yeah, I think a really practical thing that you know might want to try, for those that are listening today, might want to try at home is just playing with your kids and just taking time. It could be five minutes, it could be 10 minutes, it could be one minute. But just getting on the floor and following their lead in play has a really important connection with your kids, but also you learn a lot about them and their interests, what they’re feeling, what they’re going through, things just bubble out. It can be hard in those moments not to jump in. And that’s a skill in itself, not to try and fix emotions or even take control of those play situations. But yeah, just following their lead in play can be really helpful way of starting that.
(19:59):
The other thing that can be really helpful is thinking about the body carrying certain emotions and how can we let the body move through those things? So at times for my son might go jump on the trampoline and get a lot of that heavy work feedback through the body. It might be breathing based exercises where you… We blow out candles with imaginary candles in front of us, or might do the bubble monster, which is a little bit of detergent and some straws in a bucket. So that expiration, that long exhale really calms the… naturally calms the body down.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (20:30):
And I hear you talk about taking the time to get to know your children. So if I bring you back to the frazzled parent that’s in the supermarket with the child that is screaming because they can’t go down the chip aisle, is it those moments when you can use the knowledge that you’ve got about your child to draw their attention away from what they’re upset about and perhaps look at doing bubble monsters when you get home or drawing their attention to something else of interest that might be going on around them?
Ben Rogers (Guest) (21:01):
Yeah. So in those moments, talk about the dealing frazzled, I had the other day with our son. And in those heightened moments, it can be really challenging to… Particularly in the younger years, to rationalise and problem solve in those moments. And probably the bridge into supporting the body to calm is by validating and sitting with them and as best you can, naming their experience. And so that’s probably that priority is helping the body and the brain feel calmer in those moments. So then we can start to talk about things together. That can be challenging. Even just sitting with them on the floor during that might be an option, but when they’re feeling calmer, and one thing that we’ve started to do lately with our son is have a chat to him afterwards when he is feeling calm. It’s like, in those moments, “What can we do to help you out?”
(21:47):
And he had this really insightful thing that he shared with us, which was, “You can tickle me.” And we were like, “Oh, interesting. Tickle you.” He’s like-
Alicia Ranford (Host) (21:55):
Great.
Ben Rogers (Guest) (21:55):
“Yeah. You can tickle me.” And we’re like, “Okay, well, we’ll give that a go.” And recently I tried that, you know what? He was too heightened, but I just said, “You told me I could tickle you.” After sitting with what he was feeling, obviously. And it’s like, “Are you feeling really frustrated, mate? Is this a chance to give you a tickle?” And his eyes lit up a little bit. He calmed down and humor’s a really nice way for him, and as I engage with him, but it’s really unique to your kids. So having those conversations when they have that language is helpful.
(22:24):
But also just watching what are they into? What might they like? Some kids might want the role of pushing the trolley. That’s a really good heavy work feedback to the body, which can be calming as well. It might be a shopping list for the older kids, and in that shopping list is something that they’ve chosen. And for the younger kids, it’s probably just about being close to mom or dad during the process, and it’s a pretty busy place, a supermarket. So yeah, I think the key message in that is just tuning into what your kids’ needs are, and you’ll be surprised.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (22:53):
And I think too, ultimately, sometimes you can go in with all the best intentions and all the strategies in the world, and sometimes it’s the thing that you least expect that works.
Ben Rogers (Guest) (23:02):
Yeah. Again, I’ve shared a lot of my family experiences today, but one of the things that we had recently for our three-year-old was we’re helping him navigate the bedtime routine, and he was getting really upset about that for a variety of different reasons. And we’ve been setting up as best we can, some clear rules and boundaries for him at bedtime to keep him in his bed. And some nights this has been going really well, but this particular night it wasn’t. And we realised along that journey through that evening that he was really scared and he was exhausted, he was overtired.
(23:38):
And both my wife and I had tag team going in and out and supporting him in different ways, to the point where I was pretty exhausted. And I was like, “What’s it going to take? What can we do to support you right now, mate?” And I just on a whim said, “Do you want my jumper?” I’ve got this really comfy bedtime jumper that I wear. And he looked at me and he said, “Yeah, I want your jumper.”
Alicia Ranford (Host) (24:00):
And that was the thing.
Ben Rogers (Guest) (24:00):
That was the thing. I took my jumper off and I gave it to him, and he instantly calmed down and went to bed, and I was like, “Wow, this isn’t really a parenting strategy you read in a book.” But I think for him, there was something about having me connected to him when he went to sleep, and that was really helpful. And yeah, I think it’s just being kind to yourself. We were exhausted at that point. I didn’t know what else to do, and we’d ridden the wave with him for a good period of time. So yeah, you have to be creative sometimes, I think.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (24:28):
Absolutely, Ben, and look, thank you. I think this has been so insightful looking at kids’ emotions, which as a parent of two children myself who are now older, but I still sit with some of those times when things went completely pear-shaped and it didn’t seem that anything that I was trying worked. And I think before we finish, I just wanted to ask you if listeners today were to take home just a few things from what you’ve talked about, what would you want them to remember?
Ben Rogers (Guest) (24:57):
Yeah, I think trusting yourself to invest in the relationship with your kids and the quality time that you can spend with them, getting on the floor with them following their lead in play if you can, and we talked about curiosity today and being curious to your child’s experiences. When a child’s able to use language about an experience, invite them to share that with you. Think about where that might be in the body and where do you notice it? And just being curious together and inviting them to be curious about their experiences.
(25:23):
Your child has really creative and unique ways of talking to you about what they’re experiencing or showing you what they’re experiencing in terms of their emotions. So as best you can, try and see that and find ways of meeting that in as many moments as you can through the day. But as I said, it can be challenging. So bring that kindness and compassion to yourself as well.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (25:42):
Yeah, I think that’s a lovely note to end on, Ben, thank you. I think it is really important that anyone caring for a child does also need to remember to be kind to themselves during these moments because it can really test your limitations. Thank you for talking with us today, Ben. It’s been great to have you on our Emerging Minds Families Podcast series.
Ben Rogers (Guest) (26:00):
It’s great to be here. Thank you.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (26:01):
You have been listening to an Emerging Minds Families podcast. If anything spoken about today has been distressing for you or you find yourself struggling, please reach out for help. You can call Lifeline on 13114, or more resources for support can be found in our show notes.
Narrator (26:20):
Visit our website at www.emergingminds.com.au/families for a wide range of free information and resources to help support child and family mental health. Emerging Minds leads the National Workforce Centre for Child Mental Health. The Centre is funded by the Australian Government Department of Health under the National Support for Child and Youth Mental Health Program.