Transcript for
The Butterfly Garden: How a community built a garden and found connection

Narrator (00:02): 

Welcome to the Emerging Minds Families podcast. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (00:05): 

Hi, I’m Alicia Ranford and you are listening to an Emerging Minds Families podcast. Before we start the conversation today, we’d like to pay respects to the traditional custodians of the land on which this podcast is recorded, the Kaurna people of the Adelaide Plains. We also pay respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples, their ancestors and elders past, present and emerging from the different First Nations across Australia. In today’s podcast, we are going to be talking about connection and in particular, how people connect within their local community. Because, in our fast-paced, digitally connected world, the importance of building meaningful relationships within our local communities often gets overlooked as we navigate busy family lives. Knowing our neighbours and connecting with the families and people in our local area can become secondary to the daily chores and busyness of life. We will be touching on themes of domestic violence and loss of life. 

(01:02): 

If you feel this may bring up difficult feelings for you, perhaps give this week a miss and join us next fortnight, or you can find resources for support in our show notes. We’re going to be talking with mother and son, Debbie and Sam, who worked together with the Hackham West Community Connections Officer, Sarah, who also happens to be a resident of the local area. Hackham West is one of the lowest socioeconomic suburbs in Australia, and it’s a really remarkable story how this beautiful Butterfly Garden came to be. So welcome Debbie, Sam and Sarah. Thank you all for being here with us today. Debbie and Sam, can we start by hearing how the idea of the garden came about? 

Debbie (Guest) (01:42): 

The garden started as an idea amongst a group of homeschooling students, because Sam is homeschooled along with the rest of his siblings, and there was a group, they stayed at the zoo and they made this group called Animals Anonymous, and they decided to raise money to save orangutans. After fundraising for that, they did this big walk. They were looking for something else, and we were sitting around a table, “What could we do?” And someone came up with the idea of a community garden that focused on local animals and plants rather than on growing food. And they came up with the idea of calling it Growing More Than Trees. And so we were looking for a site. 

(02:19): 

What happened then was there was a domestic violence incident where a woman in Hackham West was murdered and we went to the vigil, which was held in this disused reserve. The reason it was held there was because it had this giant butterfly, concrete butterfly in the ground that had been neglected, but because of the symbology of butterflies and domestic violence, the vigil had been chosen to be held there. So we went there and we had never noticed the butterfly. We had lived in Hackham West for a long time, but had never known that there was this butterfly there and this space was right next to the Children’s Centre and next to the school. It’s 1.2 hectares and it was just weeds. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (02:59):

So quite a large area. 

Debbie (Guest) (03:00): 

Yeah, a big area. And we thought, “This is it. This is the spot.” And we approached Sarah. I was already part of People Matters Hackham West, which is this organisation in community members and for NGOs and for the council and for the school and for the Children’s Centre. They all sit around the table and we think of things that we can do together to improve the community. So I took the kids, Growing More Than Trees, and we did a presentation at People Matters Hackham West, and that was how the idea was born and it just went from there. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (03:29): 

How fantastic. And Sam, what age were you when you and Mum first started the garden? 

Sam (Guest) (03:34): 

It was 2016, so I would’ve been 17 then. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (03:38): 

And what’s your memory when, together, you came up with the idea of doing the garden? 

Sam (Guest) (03:43): 

I think we just share an interest in nature. So she got me started in gardening and sparked my passion really. And I think I’ve influenced her as well now. She knows a lot more about indigenous species of flora and fauna, and we’ve learned together. It’s grown into this huge project, we’re very proud of. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (04:03): 

Absolutely. And you should be very proud of that. And what do you think it meant to you to be a part of a project like this as a young boy? 

Sam (Guest) (04:11): 

I wasn’t really thinking about it really. I just wanted to plant. That’s all I ever wanted to do really. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (04:15): 

It must be quite incredible for you to see now how much your efforts have gone into growing such a beautiful space that’s used by the whole community. 

Sam (Guest) (04:24): 

Certainly, yeah. I talk about it all the time to my coworkers and friends and it’s always a huge source of pride for me. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (04:31): 

As it should be. And Sarah, what did the council have to consider when deciding about the viability of the garden Debbie and Sam had proposed to you and what did it mean to walk alongside them and the community to get the garden up and running? 

Sarah (Guest) (04:45): 

Well, Debbie was a real trailblazer in this space, so we’ve actually learned a lot as a council about what considerations there are. We had to certainly look at the future of that piece of land and whether it had been earmarked for anything in particular. And once we got the green light from the open space team, we were able to look at grants and see what money we could source for the project. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (05:09): 

Had the council done anything similar to this before? 

Sarah (Guest) (05:11): 

There’ve been lots of smaller gardens, perhaps more food-growing gardens that are attached to community facilities, but something at this scale was quite a new concept or new challenge for council. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (05:23): 

Debbie, what do you think are the benefits the garden has bought to the local community? 

Debbie (Guest) (05:28): 

There’s been so many different community groups and people involved, so that’s a very multilayered question. The benefits to me, or the reason that I do it, the passion that I have for it, and I think Sam shares this with me, is this passion for nature and that nature needs to have a space in our human world. So trying to create that space in the middle of a suburb was something that really excited both of us. And I think that we communicate that value in everything that we do. And there’s other people in the community who have also managed to find that inspiring and have allowed them to then come and contribute because we’ve made it easy for them to participate by having the project, and the plants are there and they can come and get their hands in the earth and the kids can see their parents planting and valuing nature and they get to come and they love to water. Kids love water. 

(06:14): 

And then of course, there’s the value that we’ve given to the Children’s Centre, which is next door. They can come bring the little kids in. There’s also the schools that have been involved. There’s the learning that we’ve offered in terms of seed collecting and propagation, knowing about butterflies and a lot of learning educational value. And of course, we’ve had youth justice involved as well. So those kids that have fallen off the rails, they can come to a natural space where they feel comfortable and they’ve made furniture from pallets and seen that installed and they’ve got the pride that they can come and sit on those chairs now, which is quite a thing for the council actually to allow them to be put in the garden ’cause it was like, “Oh, pallet furniture, it’s going to fall apart within a year,” but Sarah did her magic and pallet furniture is there five years later, perfectly sittable on. 

Sarah (Guest) (07:02): 

And that’s where I think this project has really been able to show council that it’s okay to take risks sometimes and trust community and be led by community as well, that we’re working on community land. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (07:13): 

It sounds like it’s built over time. So you obviously had this amazing idea and took it to council and found the wonderful Sarah who’s helped you develop it. But from a starting point when you first got together, what was it like as different members of the community came together and noticed that the garden was happening and changing? I’m imagining there was a real sense of something exciting was happening. Can you tell me a bit more about that, Sam? 

Sam (Guest) (07:38): 

Well, I think I was very happy to let the garden evolve organically, and I really just wanted the community to make it their own as well. So I think the fact that I feel very happy just to be a custodian of the garden and try and invite people in to get their own ideas. No one’s really come forward with anything yet, but I’m sure it’ll happen eventually as we keep building momentum, things will happen. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (08:04): 

Do you find you’ll be working in the garden, and I can imagine people walking past and asking you about different things and having conversations with people that you perhaps wouldn’t normally stop in a supermarket and have conversations with? 

Sam (Guest) (08:17): 

Oh, certainly. Last time we had a support worker who was just walking past. He noticed what we were doing and came and talked to me and said that he had a client who would be very interested in joining. He brought them down and I had a chat with him and told him what it was all about and the next day he came and helped out with the kids. So that was just spectacular that someone could take interest in such a spontaneous way. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (08:40): 

Have other organisations got on board and supported the garden since it began? 

Sarah (Guest) (08:44): 

Yes, absolutely. We’ve had the Hackham West Men’s Shed build us some beautiful rainbow seating that wraps around a tree and it’s just big enough for a classroom size of children to come over and do their reading and come and sit under the tree on this beautiful circular bench. So that was the school and the Men’s Shed that have become involved. We’ve had a lot of NGOs come along and support. We had the Uniting Communities kids and dads programme make some bee hotels and do some different activities with their clients in their garden. Gosh, too many to really list, I think, over the years. Who else comes to mind, Debbie? 

Debbie (Guest) (09:23): 

Woodcroft College has been hugely supportive in the last few years, bringing their year 10 students down for their service week. And they come down two full days, and just so much mulch. They have done so much wheelbarrowing of mulch, just incredible amounts of work and in the last two years we’ve planted 3000 plants with their help. There’s been other community events as well that did some of that, but they just work so beautifully. And we’ve had Cardijn College help as well. We’ve also had Christies Beach High School students were coming every week for a while, again, shifting mulch. Without their help, we wouldn’t have been able to do the project. So definitely a lot of help from schools. 

Sarah (Guest) (10:02): 

And then internally from council, different teams have come on board and support it. So we had the tree team come and plant a pocket forest with some students as well, who’d never, ever planted a tree before, these kids. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (10:14): 

And can I ask, what is a pocket forest? 

Sarah (Guest) (10:16): 

Tiny little forests that have been planted in different suburbs? 

Sam (Guest) (10:20): 

The idea is that’ll be a refuge or a stop-off spot for birds as they migrate across. It’s probably a lot about the yellow tailed black cockatoos because they’re critically endangered. So we’ve got Allocasuarina, drooping sheoak and we’ve got native pine as well. And of course just some gum trees, some eucalyptus ’cause that’s their food. They can just drop in and have a snack before they travel on. 

Sarah (Guest) (10:45): 

And move to the next pocket forest. 

Sam (Guest) (10:46): 

That’s right. 

Debbie (Guest) (10:46): 

I think the pocket forest, the concept is also about reducing heat sink. So the council has a commitment to plant, I think it’s a million trees or something. It’s some huge number of these. And they’ve chosen areas where the heat builds up. So by having the trees, it vastly reduces the amount of heat with the climate crisis upon us. These will make a difference. 

Sarah (Guest) (11:08): 

And I don’t think that this particular reserve would’ve been chosen for a pocket forest had the Butterfly Garden not begun in that place. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (11:15): 

And do you feel that this garden has helped children to feel connected with their local community? 

Debbie (Guest) (11:21): 

Well, there’s a lovely story related to the pocket forest, actually. The council team that was there planting the trees, there was an old guy and he was about to retire. It was his last week, and he was telling the Christies Beach High School kids that the huge eucalyptus that were giving us beautiful shade, he planted when he was their age. So there was the sense of continuity and there they were planting and that they could come back when they were retiring and see what they helped create. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (11:48): 

Oh, I love that intergenerational sharing of knowledge and community building. 

Debbie (Guest) (11:54): 

I think Sam being a young person has been an inspiration. 

Sam (Guest) (11:58): 

I think I love working with younger people and I think just my enthusiasm and love of nature has really carried me through to help connect with them, and I love to share my passion and I think they just react to it in a very positive way. They’re not always interested, but I think I respect their individuality. It’s hard work and you can engage with it in any way you want. So I think they’re happy to just chill out for a while sometimes. But it’s always good to get them revved up and do some hard work. And I love telling them all about indigenous species, ’cause that’s always good to have a chat while we’re planting away. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (12:35): 

I imagine that it would be a space where, if you were having a day where perhaps you felt lonely or you’d had a bad day, you could wander down to the garden and know that you might bump into someone else to say hi to or be able to just sit and contemplate your day. 

Sam (Guest) (12:51): 

Yeah, definitely. I think the garden has become a great place just to sit and enjoy. 

Debbie (Guest) (12:56): 

At the moment. We have a couple of bird boxes that we’ve put up are in use, so you can sit and watch the little baby birds poke their heads out. So that’s a really lovely thing to do, and I think it’s been enjoyed by a lot of the children in the community that they can go and check that out. One of the kids that was down recently planting, I think as Sam was saying, it’s the individuality of children, and I think the garden provides an opportunity for children who don’t always get an opportunity to express their love and observational smarts. There was a young boy who just absolutely thrived in the garden. He actually came both days of the service days from Woodcroft and was lifting up every rock, and he found the bee hotels that had been covered over by clover. He dug them out and there was all these little baby bee pupae in there and he was so excited and he took photos. He got to really shine and he was so enthusiastic. So it gives an opportunity for kids who’s maybe not into classroom learning, can really explore and enjoy. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (13:53): 

Debbie, how do you think being out in nature supports children’s mental health and wellbeing? 

Debbie (Guest) (13:58): 

I think that nature provides an opportunity for children to risk-take, to explore creatively, to feel connected to something beyond just the human world. And I think that there’s a lot of research out there about the huge value of natural spaces for children’s wellbeing. In fact, the kindy teacher was saying to me the other day, we just love having the Butterfly Garden because when the kids get a bit ratty, we take them out there. And I think that’s so true that being in confined spaces all the time is not good for kids, and just having the space to be able to move in any direction and explore and look at things is just so wonderful for kids’ developing brains. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (14:35): 

It sounds like there’s a lot of other benefits for children and families within your community as well. What else have you seen? 

Debbie (Guest) (14:42): 

I remember, because the concrete butterfly was a disused thing, it had been there, and we decided to do pebble mosaics in it. And what happened was primary school kids came over. There was a year seven class and there was one kid who’s always in trouble and he was being closely observed by his teacher, but he got to express himself through these pebble mosaics, and he was the first person to think of rather than laying the rocks flack, putting them upright, and he created this beautiful rock rose with these rose petals. It was just amazing. And so he got really a lot of validation for that and a lot of love. Everyone was like, “Wow, you’re amazing.” 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (15:16): 

And to see that creativity come out in a way that perhaps he hadn’t been able to express before is quite remarkable. 

Debbie (Guest) (15:24): 

Yes, the 3D world. And when we have our events, we always have nature crafting opportunities as well, so little kids can come down and get their hands in clay or maybe making little figures or doing something with natural materials. So the creativity is a big part of it, I think, as well. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (15:43): 

It must be quite remarkable for you, within the council, to have seen how this community garden has grown and flourished and what it’s done for the suburb of Hackham West, and it sounds like even the surrounding suburbs. Have you seen more growth in this area within the council? 

Sarah (Guest) (15:59): 

Yeah. For me, this project has just been such a true example of what community development can be. Trusting the voice of our community members and listening to them. And after such a tragic occurrence as this murder in the local suburb, for people then to rally around together and look at creating a place that people can come to feel safe, be able to reflect and connect with the neighbours has just been really, really profound. It’s been one of the highlights of my career. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (16:27): 

Has this led to more opportunities within the community? 

Sarah (Guest) (16:29): 

Yes. Because of this project, I think we’ve been able to, internally, in council, work out some of the processes that need to be developed to be able to enable other community members to bring these kinds of ideas to light. So just locally in Christie Downs, which is not far from Hackham West, another group of neighbours have got together and are exploring the idea of turning a gravel pit into a garden. So that’s actually come a long way now and they’re starting to look at getting some funding for that project. So it certainly has been an inspiration for others. 

Debbie (Guest) (17:04): 

People Matters, I think, has a lot to offer as well as a concept. So the idea of People Matters Hackham West, is not just council, it’s the school, it’s the children’s Centre, it’s the community centre, it’s all the NGOs, Anglicare and Junction all coming around. And a lot of the things in the garden have happened really easily and quickly because there’s all those resources. And so I can turn up and say, “I need blah,” and they’re like, “Yeah, I can do that,” or, “I can help,” or, “Yes, we’ve got the $100 you need to buy that particular thing,” or whatever it is. And we’ve actually had events that have happened just from no funding, just everyone contributing something and bang, there we go, we’ve got a family event happening in the garden. So I think there’s a lot to be said from having that table around which you can communicate to make these projects happen really easily. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (17:53): 

I love that you said it’s located right next to a Children’s Centre, so I imagine in a day too, it’s really beautiful that you might be working in the garden and the children come out and do an activity there. 

Debbie (Guest) (18:04): 

They’re always waving at you through the fence. 

Sarah (Guest) (18:06): 

Yeah. They get to know you. 

Sam (Guest) (18:08): 

Always asking questions. As soon as I go near the fence, it’s always like, “What are you doing?” “I’m digging, I’m putting some plants in the ground,” or, “I’m spreading some mulch,” and they’re like, “Oh, cool.” 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (18:17): 

How nice that it encourages that curiosity from them- 

Sam (Guest) (18:20): 

For sure, yeah. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (18:20): 

… about what’s happening. 

Sam (Guest) (18:21): 

No, they’re future recruits. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (18:23): 

That’s a great way to think about it. And have you all made new friends through this experience? 

Debbie (Guest) (18:28): 

Well, Sarah has become a very good friend to both Sam and I. 

Sarah (Guest) (18:31): 

Yeah, definitely built relationships with Debbie and Sam, and there’s been some other volunteers who’ve come on board and stuck with us through the years. 

Debbie (Guest) (18:39): 

I’ve just made a new friend, actually. Beginning of this year, came to one of our events, Chris, and we go for walks together, chat and he comes over and helps Sam and I with all the tedious jobs of filling pots and thinning out things and all of that. So he’s a real go-to and lovely guy. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (18:56): 

Debbie and Sam, what could others who wanted to create a safe space do to look at the possibility of doing this in their community? 

Sam (Guest) (19:03): 

Well, I think there’s really no understanding, just the power of creating a network, like Mum was saying before, how we’ve done a lot of events where people have pulled all their resources together and we’ve made something out of nothing. It’s like this is just the power of community here. Going forward into the future with a lot of the pressures of climate change and the economic pressure that we’re feeling today, I think people are going to make a big return to creating stronger, tighter-knit communities, how we survive as people and thrive. 

Debbie (Guest) (19:32): 

To add to that, I think imagination is an important thing. Since having done this garden, I drive around and I’m like, “Oh, there’s another spot.” “Oh, there’s another spot.” So I think just thinking outside of what’s there, what’s possible, and then if you actually start asking the questions, thinking that and seeing what resources and what connections you have in your community, you’ll be amazed at how people just need that little bit of a nudge and just a little bit of leadership and look what we’ve achieved. I haven’t actually physically planted a plant for quite a few years ’cause my back is bad, but we’ve planted thousands and thousands of plants together. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (20:06): 

Sarah, do you have advice for community members who are looking to approach their local council about initiatives and ideas like this? 

Sarah (Guest) (20:14): 

Yeah, certainly. I think don’t be put off by some of the hurdles that you might have to jump through. If you’re lucky enough, as we are at Onkaparinga to have community development officers or community connections officers, they’re there to help you navigate some of the council procedures and processes. And then it’s about not giving up. So sticking at it. There have been times when perhaps it’s just Debbie and I doing some weeding or working in the garden, but over time you’ll find that other people will get on board. So don’t give up. Keep at it. It’s worth it. 

(20:44): 

One of the things to keep in mind is that there might be some rules and regulations that you have to abide by. Great example of that is our verge guidelines. So we do encourage people to plant on their verges. We just ask people to be mindful of things like the contamination of the soil, the types of plants that you plant, and how high they might grow, where bins are going to be placed, those kinds of things. But that’s certainly a great place for people to start if they’re wanting to do something small, is to look at their verge planting guidelines on the council website and have a go at planting something like that. 

Sam (Guest) (21:19): 

Yeah, it’s very important to state that. Our project was small in the beginning as well. We only had the one grant and we didn’t really know where it was going to end up in the end. So you just have to start something and just try something small at first. And then if you’ve got the energy and the motivation after that, just keep going. 

Sarah (Guest) (21:39): 

We know that strong relationships and a strong sense of community builds positive wellbeing, good wellbeing people. We really encourage neighbours to get to know one another, to have a cup of tea or even to do something as big as having a street gathering or a play street. We can support people through our play street project to invite their neighbours along to have a party on their street and close their street down. That’s something that we did at the Butterfly Garden quite a few times. I think three or four times we’ve had street gatherings just on the street right next to the Butterfly Garden. And that’s been a great way to engage with the neighbours too, who live opposite the Butterfly garden and get them invested in what’s happening in the garden. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (22:19): 

Before we finish, I wanted to ask you, Sam and Debbie, what advice would you have for any of our listeners who perhaps wanted to get involved in something going on in their local community, maybe didn’t feel confident or know what to expect? 

Debbie (Guest) (22:32): 

There’s lots of organisations and groups already doing things, so a quick Google, I’m sure you’ll find something in Adelaide. There’s Bringing Back the Butterflies, they’re doing propagation at the moment. There’s Trees for Life. There’s lots of different groups doing things. So you can just join in with something that’s already happening. Just keep an eye out and check out your local community centre, see what they’re doing gardening wise. Lots of opportunities out there. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (22:55): 

And Sam, do you think it’s a matter of if you see someone doing something interesting, go and ask them about it like those kids did when they peer through the fence at you? 

Sam (Guest) (23:04): 

Definitely. I think curiosity is a good instinct to have. You’ll meet more people and if you are interested in starting any sort of movement, people are necessary. 

Sarah (Guest) (23:18): 

I was going to say that too, Sam. I was going to say you can’t do it on your own. You’ve got to get other people on board. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (23:20): 

Sam, I understand that from your love of nature and your involvement in the Community Garden, it’s led you on the path that you’re on today. Could you tell us a little bit about that? 

Sam (Guest) (23:30): 

Certainly. I’m working in the conservation industry now, working for Greening Australia. They’re a huge organisation and it’s been really good. I’ve been learning a lot. The garden just kept me occupied and in the conservation mindset. So it’s just keeping me prepared for work and keeping me on my goal of working in conservation and achieving that lifestyle. Just the fact that I get to go out in nature every day when I’m working and just experience what it’s like to be in the conservation industry, is just a huge step forward for me. And if I end up staying with Greening Australia for the rest of my life, or if I end up going somewhere else, I’ll know that they were part of the reason that I was successful in my dream. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (24:12): 

I love to think that this initiative that you and Mum started all those years ago, it’s now helped develop your love of nature and see you move into that industry. So I wish you the very best of luck with that. 

(24:24): 

Thank you all so much for joining us today. It has really been so wonderful learning about the magical space you’ve created together for your local community. 

Debbie (Guest) (24:33): 

Thank you. 

Sarah (Guest) (24:34): 

Thank you. 

Sam (Guest) (24:34): 

Thank you for having us. It’s been excellent. 

Alicia Ranford (Host) (24:36): 

And thank you to our listeners for joining us. If you would like to keep up to date with our latest conversations, we’d love it if you like and subscribe to our Emerging Minds Families podcast channel. You can also find us on Instagram @emergingmindsau or on Facebook at Emerging Minds Families. You’ve been listening to an Emerging Minds Families podcast. If anything spoken about in today’s episode has been distressing for you or you find yourself struggling, please reach out for help. You can call Lifeline on 131114, or more resources for support can be found in our show notes. 

Narrator (25:11): 

Visit our website www.emergingminds.com.au/families for a wide range of free information and resources to help support child and family mental health. Emerging Minds leads the National Workforce Centre for Child Mental Health. The Centre is funded by the Australian Government Department of Health under the National Support for Child and Youth Mental Health Program.