Transcript for
When family members reconnect: A mother and son’s story of reconciliation
Narrator (00:02):
Welcome to the Emerging Minds Families podcast.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (00:05):
Hi, I’m Alicia Ranford and you are listening to an Emerging Minds Families podcast. In today’s podcast, we’ll be touching on themes of domestic violence, so please, if you feel this will be upsetting to you, perhaps give this episode a miss and join us next fortnight, or you can find resources for support in our show notes.
(00:24):
Before we start the conversation today, we’d like to pay respects to the traditional custodians of the land on which this podcast is recorded, the Kaurna people of the Adelaide Plains. We also pay respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples, their ancestors and elders past, present, and emerging from the different First Nations across Australia.
(00:44):
Even when we really care about each other, feeling or remaining connected with our families can be hard sometimes. This can be especially true if a family is experiencing violence or has intergenerational trauma. It can also be a challenge to maintain this feeling of connection if you’re struggling financially, or don’t have access to a supportive community, affordable childcare, or safe and secure housing. And when one member of the family is going through these difficult times, it can mean all members of the family share this experience in one way or another. For lots of reasons, the connections we form in our lives can break down, and then we want to find our way back to the closeness we had before. But this is not always easy or straightforward. Today we’ll be talking to Emi and their son Elliot about how they work to re-establish connectedness after a time of being apart. Welcome, Emi and Elliot, thank you so much for joining us today.
Emi (Guest) (01:39):
Hi, it’s good to be here.
Elliot (Guest) (01:40):
Me too, thank you.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (01:41):
I wondered whether, Emi, you could start by telling our listeners a bit about your experience, and how it came that you and Elliot became disconnected.
Emi (Guest) (01:49):
I guess my experience in terms of this is part of a longer story of childhood trauma, adulthood trauma that led me into a relationship which started off, well, it was never great, but it got progressively worse in that relationship. I already had two children. One of them was Elliot, and then I had two more children with my partner at the time. And as it got worse, we experienced different forms of violence, homelessness. And then when I left my ex-partner, he came back in our lives and things got really, really bad. And then I guess I found it really hard to be the parent that I wanted to be, and my parenting skills really went downhill. I think I’d always did my best to be a good parent, but my parenting skills were put to the test, and Elliot ended up leaving home and I became homeless again with the kids. I guess like that, we just got forever and forever apart.
Elliot (Guest) (02:40):
I was 16, moved out of home, and so when Mumza and the rest of my siblings were homeless again, I already had my own place in New South Wales where we were living at the time. Then they all moved down to South Australia and I stayed, so the degree of separation got further. Dad was still sort of in, sort of out and I didn’t really want anything to do with him at all. I just wanted him out of my life permanently, and if that meant leaving everyone else behind including my younger siblings, that then I was willing to do that. It was in that mindset of I will do anything possible just to leave and leave it all behind me.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (03:23):
So what I’m hearing from you, Elliot, is that actually it was a protective mechanism for you.
Elliot (Guest) (03:28):
Definitely. Even though I didn’t see it at the time, that separation was completely necessary. I think if we didn’t have that separation, me and Mumza wouldn’t have the same relationship that we have now. We needed that time apart to be able to heal. We couldn’t heal together, we had to heal apart.
Emi (Guest) (03:45):
At the time when you actually left, I think we’d moved. Before the separation, I left my ex. Things had got really, really bad when he came back in my life and did a huge amount of damage. That was the first period of homelessness, and that was really traumatic. At the time when Elliot actually left, we’d gone from, I think our third refuge. We got shunted around a lot of refuges, and we were in a transitional house. And really that was a point when things for me should have been improving, but I was actually really, really bad.
(04:12):
I remember I used to have these terrible rage fits, they were bad. Elliot was already suffering with trauma, and it would’ve been terrifying for all of the kids, but especially Elliot, and I was in a really bad place. And also my ex had once again come back into our lives. We had an AVO, a family order against dad at the time, but it made no difference. He was in our lives, and so he was not meant to be in our lives, but he was. So there was nothing that I could do to keep him out of our lives, there literally wasn’t.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (04:41):
If we move forward from that, as you move through this time, what was the point where you recognised that you wanted to reconnect?
Emi (Guest) (04:49):
I think a lot of it was time and healing. I don’t think there’s space for things like reconnection when you’re still so deep in trauma. When I was so deep in trauma, I had space for pretty much nothing but surviving. When you can only survive, there’s not a lot of space to do anything else, and reconnection does take a bit of mental and emotional space.
Elliot (Guest) (05:10):
Lot of energy as well.
Emi (Guest) (05:11):
A lot of energy, yeah. Even though it’s small steps, it does take a lot of energy. I think it was just time, and we’ve always had a huge, huge bond.
Elliot (Guest) (05:21):
I know for me it was as I got older and I had more space for myself, a lot of therapy, so much therapy, and all of a sudden I just realised I miss my family a bit. I wanted to know how they were doing. I knew Mumza was in South Australia, I didn’t know where. I wasn’t really keeping track. It was just this little tick at the back of my mind, I wonder how they’re going. And then it just grew. So yeah, it wasn’t one specific key moment.
(05:50):
One of the key things was when Mumza was stable and able to be a parent again, I was actually able to see them as a parent, and see them as the parent that I needed. I was able to be the child again instead of an adult who was taking care of another adult sort of thing. I was able to have that parent-child relationship again, and it was something that I needed. I don’t think I would’ve been able to have that reconnection if that wasn’t there. The reconnection needed to be as a parent and a child, not as two adult family members coming back together.
Emi (Guest) (06:26):
Yeah, that’s so true. And that’s always been really important for me. I guess because of my own history of trauma and childhood dysfunction, it’s always been really important for there to be clear boundaries that I’m the parent, and my children are my children. Then Elliot and I are great friends now, but that’s never going to change. I’m a parent first and Elliot’s my child first, and then other things happen after that.
Elliot (Guest) (06:49):
It is something I am so grateful, because I know that I can talk to Mumza about these small things or things that I’m interested and we can make jokes and we can catch up and have coffee and do all these things as typical friend or a family member. But I also know that when I am struggling and when I need Mumza as my parent, not as my friend, they will always be there. I’ve had times where I’ve been really lost that I’ve needed Mumza as a parent, and they’ve been there for that and I know that I can trust them to fill that role for me. And especially now that I am a parent now with five-year-old, I can ask them about things, and they can be my parent to help me parent my child. It’s a really, really beautiful bond and relationship that I wouldn’t have any other way.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (07:39):
And a real credit to both of you that through everything that you’ve experienced together, this is the relationship that you have now.
Emi (Guest) (07:45):
Yeah, it’s true, I’m really grateful for that. When you’re a parent and you’re really in that thick of trauma, you’re not able to be a parent really. I know my Mum, the way she dealt with trauma was she just wasn’t there, she literally disappeared. And then for me, when I was thick in trauma, I was either not there emotionally and physically too sometimes, or I was the child and the children had to parent me. Those roles get thrown up when you’re thick in trauma so it’s good to be able to come to the other side of that and take up our roles again.
Elliot (Guest) (08:16):
Exactly. And it’s something that took a long time.
Emi (Guest) (08:21):
And proper effort too.
Elliot (Guest) (08:22):
Yeah, on both ends actually, as much as it might think the parent has to do all the hard work, it is hard work for the parent, and you can recognise that Mumza’s devoted a huge amount of effort towards healing and a lot of energy towards repairing. It was something that I also had to devote a lot of effort. I also had to make sure that I respected their boundaries while also being mindful of my own, and also recognising my own limits and not pushing myself and trusting them to take care of my own limits. I had to be accountable for my own actions, as well as trusting that they could be accountable as well as trusting that they be accountable for theirs.
Emi (Guest) (09:01):
Yeah, accountability is vital. I think always being accountable for your actions, and that means recognising that you’re not going to get it right all the time. And definitely, there’s times even when I’ve done a lot of therapy and a lot of healing that I’ve slipped up and I’ve not been the parent that I want to be, and that’s okay. Life is an evolving process, so being accountable for that and recognising that and making amends and saying, “Hey, I’m sorry I did that.” And also recognising that the past happened, there’s things that I did as a parent that I wish I hadn’t have done, but I can’t change that either.
(09:30):
But what I can do is be the best parent I can be now, I try and be the best parent I can be now, and that’s ongoing. And that’s something, it’s almost like you wake up in the morning and say, “Okay.” Well, I do say in the mornings I want to be the best version of myself I can be, but a part of that is being the best parent I can be because I’m never not going to be a parent. 25 plus years ago, it happened that I was a parent. I never thought I was going to be a parent, and it happened, so you can’t take that away.
Elliot (Guest) (09:55):
Yeah, it’s something that just sticks with you.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (09:57):
It’s a lifelong journey.
Emi (Guest) (09:57):
It’s a lifelong journey. You can’t wake up one day and say, “Oh, today I’m not going to be a parent. Just going to take a break.” It doesn’t happen, but that’s okay.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (10:07):
When you both felt you were at a point where you wanted to have that relationship again, what were some of the steps you took to reconnect?
Elliot (Guest) (10:15):
Really simple messages.
Emi (Guest) (10:17):
Just little things.
Elliot (Guest) (10:18):
Yeah, really small things. Actually, I’m pretty sure it started off with Mumza sending a photo of her new dog, Phoebe.
Emi (Guest) (10:26):
I didn’t want to push things. I really respected that this had to happen in the space that was right for Elliot. I mean, if it was up to me, I’d have Elliot living next door in the heartbeat, but I knew that wasn’t going to work for either of us. So it had to happen at a pace that was right for both of us.
Elliot (Guest) (10:42):
Yeah, I think I also knew that I wasn’t ready to jump straight back into things, so just really small things were really good. Just little things that I got tickets to a basketball game, and I sent them a photo. They took a photo of a really nice bridge near their place, a train bridge, and sent it to me. It’s just these very, very small things, just small snippets of each other’s lives, and eventually it just progresses naturally. It becomes a natural reconnect.
Emi (Guest) (11:15):
I guess what we’re doing is allowing that trust to regrow.
Elliot (Guest) (11:18):
Exactly, yeah. It had to grow organically. Obviously you had to take the first step, but once that small step is in place, it’s almost like planting a seed in a way. It takes a lot of time, but it grows.
Emi (Guest) (11:31):
With the right foundations, I’m so grateful that for one, we were both able to do our own healing in our own time, and that we were able to reconnect with those good foundations. That was a real blessing for us that it happened that way.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (11:44):
It sounds like it was building on those small steps, starting out with small messages, and then did it progress to wanting to see each other?
Emi (Guest) (11:52):
Yeah. I remember the first time that Elliot visited us in South Australia. We met at the airport.
Elliot (Guest) (11:57):
Right.
Emi (Guest) (11:58):
This is amazing actually. I had a dog, we’d got this dog on our journey from New South Wales to South Australia.
Elliot (Guest) (12:03):
This is Fifi.
Emi (Guest) (12:05):
She was about a year old then, and she’s not great with strangers so I didn’t know how she was going to be.
Elliot (Guest) (12:09):
That’s an understatement, she’s horrible with strangers. Absolutely monster.
Emi (Guest) (12:14):
She’s overprotective. So we met at the airport and I had Fifi. Fifi ran up and straight away connected with Elliot, it was incredible.
Elliot (Guest) (12:22):
It was.
Emi (Guest) (12:23):
It was so beautiful.
Elliot (Guest) (12:24):
Yeah, I was really worried because I’d heard all the horror story, she was a real growler, just super protective. I think it was also because of the way that you guys had moved around so much in the car. It was almost a bit like a pack.
Emi (Guest) (12:36):
Living in the car.
Elliot (Guest) (12:37):
Yeah.
Emi (Guest) (12:37):
It was three kids, a lot of possessions, and one dog’s nose poking out of all the stuff.
Elliot (Guest) (12:45):
She just ran up to me. I was ready to be all calm and slowly introduce myself and she just ran up, sniffed me, was a little bit wary, and then just jumped up and started licking me and it was so beautiful.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (12:58):
Dogs know.
Emi (Guest) (12:59):
They do. They do, I know. Yeah, it was incredible. And then we all ran up and hugged and started crying. It was really beautiful.
Elliot (Guest) (13:05):
I was really worried, but it was just really beautiful, and it’s a really beautiful memory actually.
Emi (Guest) (13:12):
Saying that though, we only did it for a short amount of time.
Elliot (Guest) (13:15):
I stayed there for about four days, took the plane back, and then I don’t think I actually visited for at least another six months.
Emi (Guest) (13:23):
Yeah, it was probably longer.
Elliot (Guest) (13:23):
It was a long.
Emi (Guest) (13:25):
I think it was about a year.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (13:26):
So taking it slow.
Elliot (Guest) (13:26):
Definitely.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (13:26):
Was important.
Elliot (Guest) (13:26):
Very slow.
Emi (Guest) (13:29):
We definitely couldn’t rush it. You had to let things build up again. Well, for me, it was really important to acknowledge my role in the past, because it’s like the elephant in the room. That was really important for me moving forward, because the past is painful, and I know not all of it was my fault, but some of it was, and none of it was Elliot’s fault because he was a kid. So it was really important for me to lay that out, and to take it out of the dark and into the open.
Elliot (Guest) (13:54):
Once I saw that you had admitted the things that you had done wrong, it was like something had lifted, and then all of a sudden I was able to reflect and realised that yeah, I had also messed up a little bit. And of course I was a child, but there were things that I’d said and things that I’d done. And it’s that sort of thing that once your parent takes the step to acknowledge, all of a sudden I feel safer in acknowledging my own wrongs.
Emi (Guest) (14:19):
I guess it’s about being authentic, isn’t it? Authentic and honest.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (14:21):
And were there barriers that got in the way at times of reconnecting?
Emi (Guest) (14:25):
We can’t spend a lot of time together.
Elliot (Guest) (14:27):
No.
Emi (Guest) (14:28):
We just can’t.
Elliot (Guest) (14:28):
It is literally a maximum of three nights, threes sleeps and then it cannot be any longer because otherwise we would just clash. Things get brought up and the old resentments.
Emi (Guest) (14:41):
We fall into old behaviours. And because my own personal trauma was so intense, those neurotic pathways are really deeply ingrained. And likewise, that was a lot of years, we spent Elliot and I in an unhealthy relationship. My ex unfortunately really focused on Elliot.
Elliot (Guest) (14:56):
Yes.
Emi (Guest) (14:57):
He was not good, and I wasn’t able to change that as I tried. I couldn’t keep Elliot safe and other things happen. There was a lot of then connected trauma. If we spend too much time together, no matter what I’ve said to myself, no doubt Elliot has before, we will slip into those old patterns and that’s not healthy. But that’s okay. We don’t have to spend a lot of time together, and that’s important for us that we recognise that.
Elliot (Guest) (15:20):
I think the fact that we don’t spend all the time together, all this time physically together means that when I do stay the night, it’s really nice.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (15:29):
What a strength that you both recognise the limitations in your relationship now, so the positives and the limitations in your relationship now.
Emi (Guest) (15:36):
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it’s not all gone with sunshine.
Elliot (Guest) (15:39):
No.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (15:39):
Emi, when we spoke, you told me a lovely story about one of the barriers being that you hadn’t always known how to show your kids love.
Emi (Guest) (15:46):
Yes, absolutely. Again, because of my own trauma, I never thought I was going to be a parent, and one of the reasons that I had no desire to be a parent was because I have really bad trauma history. But here I am, a parent of four kids, so.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (15:59):
There we go.
Elliot (Guest) (16:00):
And also a pretty good parent these days.
Emi (Guest) (16:01):
Thank you. One of the things that I recognise is because of my own childhood and adult history, I find it really hard to demonstrate love. I mean, I can say it verbally, but that’s really as far as it goes. I can do it through wider actions for how I live my life or how I interact. I only recently realised the extent of this because one of my daughters, she was just getting ready for a formal. She was showing me her outfit and she’d had a makeup done, and she just looked so beautiful and I was so proud of her. I was just so overwhelmed with all these emotions, so proud of her. She looked so beautiful and she was finishing year 12, and it was huge. I just wanted to do something more than just hugging because that’s really all I can do is hug.
(16:45):
I just reached out and I started stroking her hair, and it just felt so uncomfortable, such a thing, a simple thing as stroking her hair. And I thought, I want to do this. I want to stroke my child’s hair to show her that I think she’s beautiful and I love her, and it was really, really hard. Obviously I’ve known that I can’t demonstrate love, but that moment really brought home, sorry, I’m getting a bit emotional, this is just so big, just how hard it is for me to do a simple thing like stroke a child’s hair. What does that mean as a parent?
Elliot (Guest) (17:16):
I mean, the other thing is growing up, we always knew that you loved us.
Emi (Guest) (17:20):
I wanted to tell the kids every day, at least once a day that I loved them.
Elliot (Guest) (17:23):
But you also showed it in other ways. We didn’t have a standard childhood in the sense that we stayed home, we were always out. It was just us five, and we were always alone. We were always on this hike or this walk. But even though it wasn’t like a traditional love that you see in media, the kisses on the cheeks and the sitting in bed and talking.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (17:48):
What a beautiful way to demonstrate to our listeners that love comes in many forms, and that you can demonstrate that love in a number of ways. And you obviously did that through their childhood, hearing Elliot speak like that.
Emi (Guest) (18:02):
One thing I’m certain is that all the kids throughout all the difficulties knew they were loved.
Elliot (Guest) (18:06):
Yeah.
Emi (Guest) (18:07):
I genuinely believe that one of the factors that stopped us from really falling apart dramatically through all the things like homelessness and violence and my trauma and so on, was that love. It was just there.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (18:19):
When you were in the really hard times, despite what was going on, you were very clearly doing lots of things to make your children, try and keep your children safe and make them feel loved. And hearing Elliot speak in those moments when you were doing that, that was building those threads of connection that would carry you forward. And that’s really, to me, to hear that is a really incredible sense of strength that you had that despite what was going on in your life at that time, your actions were still building that bond with Elliot that would carry you into the future. Was there anyone or anything that helped you reconnect with each other?
Emi (Guest) (19:02):
Therapists.
Elliot (Guest) (19:03):
Therapists. So much therapy. Also, trauma therapy.
Emi (Guest) (19:06):
Oh yeah, specific therapy. Right from the get go, I had specific therapy.
Elliot (Guest) (19:09):
It took me a while to go to an actual trauma therapist, but she was a godsend. For a long time, I didn’t want to be around Mumza because I didn’t want to be their caretaker. And so it took therapy for me to actually realise that in this reconnecting and being back in their lives, I’m not actually meant to be the carer, it’s meant to be the other way round. It took therapy to be able to help us to stop slipping into those old roles and those old behaviours.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (19:43):
What kind of things do you do to sustain your connection now?
Emi (Guest) (19:46):
Over the years, I’ve had huge problems with anger, with explosive anger. I don’t want to bring everything back to trauma, but it is what it is. It’s one of the things, complex PTSD, explosive anger. I really had to learn to manage the anger because one, if I went into a rage, it’s terrifying. And also it would just be a horrible trigger. I think it was really important to really go deep into some of the stuff that was impacting my life in order for me to become a healthy person. I’m so glad that I could do that. Well, I guess it happened at the same time, but that was part of our reconnection process. I wouldn’t have liked to see what it looked like, what it would’ve looked like without that.
Elliot (Guest) (20:23):
One of the things of me understanding, me feeling like I was able to reconnect was also knowing that I wasn’t the only one making an effort to heal, and also watching them having accountability for their own actions. One of the things I do appreciate is the fact that before they would’ve just jumped straight into things, and they have before. Mumza has jumped into my life and tried to take over it, and it is genuinely with good intentions. And so now I’m really appreciative of the fact that they trust me to tell them myself when things are getting hard. And it also means that I can talk to them as them being a parent about things that I’m struggling with, without worrying that they’re going to try and take control.
Emi (Guest) (21:09):
Yeah, and I think also it’s like those boundaries are really clear and solid because they weren’t before, they just did dissolve for some time. And so it’s very important to keep those boundary walls maintained and healthy. I think we learned from that though.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (21:23):
There might be people listening to this who have had a similar experience to you both. What would be some questions you suggest they ask themselves to get them thinking about? What would be some of the questions you suggest they ask themselves to get them thinking about what they might be able to do to help reconnect with a loved one?
Emi (Guest) (21:42):
I think no parent or family is the same. Everyone is very, very unique and we bring our own histories, and our own values to our personal and our family situations. That’s what informs us and informs the way we parent. So I guess you want to ask yourself, what’s important to you as a parent? What are your values? That’s going to be the key to guide your reconnection, and your values are going to be unique. Yeah, sometimes we don’t know what they are until we actually ask ourselves. So figure that out, I think that’s a really important one.
Elliot (Guest) (22:14):
And then I guess from the other side of the spectrum, from me as the child, you need to make sure that you’re actually ready and you’re doing it for your own reasons. You need to be mentally ready for it, and mentally stable. It needs to be enough time and enough healing. You cannot just jump straight back in to where you are at, you have to take it slow. Also, acknowledging that it’s not going to be the same as what it was, no matter how much healing, no matter how much time has passed.
Emi (Guest) (22:44):
Yeah, those differences from then and now, they’re important, but they’re okay, aren’t they? You’ve got to do a lot of acceptance. I think as a parent, I would’ve been ready for Elliot to come back into my life whenever, but for us, it happened slowly. What I would say is a parent in this situation, yes, be always ready. You’ve always got a happy door open, but if you’re not actually physically, emotionally, mentally ready, try and have some things in place so that you can go easy and recognise that you might not be physically, mentally, emotionally ready if you can, because it’s hard. Also, make sure that things are safe, and if they’re not, maybe that is the one time when you have your door closed.
Elliot (Guest) (23:21):
I think at the end of the day, even if things mess up, if you just have the want to continue to reconnect, it’ll be okay.
Emi (Guest) (23:31):
That’s where those values come in. If one of your values is to be a parent who’s present and there for your kids through the thick and thin, then that’s going to be the thing that’s going to guide you when things are hard.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (23:43):
For people listening today, if they take away nothing else, what would you want them to take away from hearing your conversation and stories?
Emi (Guest) (23:50):
Don’t give up. Keep trying, it’s worth it. It might take a long time, but it’s worth it.
Elliot (Guest) (23:54):
You don’t have to jump into it. Just take your time, look after yourself, and understand that it’s not going to be smooth sailing.
Emi (Guest) (24:03):
And as a parent, one of the things that is important is to remember that you are the parent and reconnecting, when you’re reconnecting with your child, you have to reconnect as a parent.
Alicia Ranford (Host) (24:13):
I want to really truly thank you both for sharing your wisdom and knowledge and experience with our listeners today. It’s been so valuable and I know that there are so many people out there who will take a lot away from what we said today, so thank you.
Emi (Guest) (24:28):
Thank you.
Elliot (Guest) (24:28):
No, thank you.
Narrator (24:29):
Visit our website at www.emergingminds.com.au/families for a wide range of free information and resources to help support child and family mental health. Emerging Minds leads the National Workforce Centre for Child Mental Health. The Centre is funded by the Australian Government Department of Health under the National Support for Child and Youth Mental Health Program.